permaculture

["j Kolenovsky" <garden@hal-pc.org>]

Oops. I forgot the put the "subject down" on the subject line instead of
"Re: permaculture Digest, Vol 51, Issue 20" as the subject, which is
incorrect to reference a response to a topic.

Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:01:05 -0500
From: KNat <knat@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] GLOBAL WARMING:- A different 'take' on it
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <461CEA21.6020205@sprintmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I don't think we need to be re-hashing discredited and unproven theories
on this forum, in the face of this weight of scientific evidence, and 
the seriousness of the crisis. I would suggest that our time is better 
spent in figuring out how Permaculture contributes to the solution of 
the problem as time is seriously running out.
Larry Saltzman

Time is not a commodity to run out. Much of this discussion frames it as

such and is the heart of the sensationalism of late. Permaculture defies
principles that are based on running out. The goal of balance within and
relationship.
The needs to be addressed are the same now as 7 generations ago and will

be the same for 7 generations hence. After that they will be the same 
for another 7 generations but they will be able to perceive the needs so

differently from us now it won't feel the same.
Buy now while you can! Spend life well while you can! Same approach to 
profit.

We will all/each live thru cycles in this Spiral Dance when we are pure 
hearted and when we are not. We will affect others deliberately and 
non-deliberately.

Money spent producing glitsy pamphlets on Global Warming will add to 
Global Warming. Politicians getting elected and passing laws in a linear

fashion for financial gain will add to societal oppression, even if the 
cause they propose is a "cleaner world."

A different viewpoint doesn't need to support the linear pretense so 
debating between them here is, indeed, a bit silly. But reminding 
ourselves there are other viewpoints is critical to our remaining 
multi-faceted.

Peace,
Kathyann

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:45:42 -0500
From: "J. Kolenovsky" <garden@hal-pc.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 51, Issue 20
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <002201c77c58$d837a480$0201a8c0@Garden>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Travis, I had a thought that the caron emmision started during the
Industrial Revolution but now see it could go back to the early Holocene
period. If it goes back that early, it could be that all of the history
since has been on a normal path and timeline.

Hmmm. I always wondered about the efficiency of those wood-burning steam
locomotives. They are romantically nostalgic.

J

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:00:45 -0400
From: Travis Miller <wyrdbrew@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] GLOBAL WARMING:- A different 'take' on it
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <FAF88E16-04B3-4906-993A-86B5920EED40@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

I recently read a paper on a theory that anthropogenic warming  
actually started thousands of years ago.  The gist of the paper is  
that anomalous quantities of CH2 and CO2 have been  dated to the  
early part of the holocene period.  The methane increases are along  
the same timeline as the increased use in domesticated ungulates and  
the CO2 increases are on the same timeline as deforestation by humans  
for use as farmland.  The hypothesis is that the domestication of  
animals and clearing of land got the global warming ball rolling and  
extended the cyclical warm period between glaciation and that we'd be  
well into an ice age if it wasn't for human activity.  Essentially,  
agriculture created global warming and industrialization made it more  
severe.  I'm not a climate scientist but the data and the basic  
premise seemed to make sense.

Here is a link to the paper on Stanford's website.

http://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/Publications/PDF_Papers/ 
Ruddiman2003.pdf

This may have some bearing on discussion of how Permaculture can and  
should be used as part of a mitigation response to climate change.

Travis

"It is never to late to be what you might have been."
- George Eliot
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-- 
J. Kolenovsky, habitat enviromentalist
Energy shortages prove its right.
Peak Oil changing is your lifestyle.
www.energybulletin.net   - exhilirating
www.peak-oil-news.info/ - informative
www.theoildrum.com/     -  interesting
www.postcarbon.org/     -  practical
www.celestialhabitats.com - cool


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