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  • From: Robyn Francis <erda@nor.com.au>
  • To: "evansdk@earthlink.net, permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] poop risk
  • Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:15:02 +1000

On 16/10/06 8:54 AM, "Kathleen Evans" <evansdk@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Thomas, You're right, I certainly am unqualified....I just thought it
> pertained to the heat and time thing, that those things must not be
> shortcutted or overlooked. Apologies, I didn't mean to generate unnatural
> fear...most of the time when I say anything on this list I realize later
> (or sooner) that I didn't know what I was talking about. Mum's the word.
> Kathy
>
> Kathy Evans
> evansdk@earthlink.net

On the contrary Kathy, I'm glad you brought this up. There IS a real risk
with handling humanure inappropriately. All animal manures carry pathogens,
particularly e-coli. I'm often concerned at the casual way some folk treat
human waste and the risk it can pose.
The precautionary principle is worth serious consideration to ensure
absolutely that humanure is properly composted and sufficient isolation time
is allowed to make sure not only pathogens but intestinal parasites are not
spread.

I have a composting toilet, based on the clivus design, which has a healthy
earthworm population in the chamber. We empty the old composted stuff out
several times a year. Most of what's removed has been composting for at
least a year in the chamber but contamination from fresh deposits can occur.
On the precautionary side, we dig a trench in the garden about 10 inches
deep, and about 18 inches wide, spread the humanure compost along the bottom
about 2" deep, let the sun do its natural UV treatment for an hour or so and
cover it with 8-10" of soil then mulch heavily. I generally plant a green
manure crop (lupins, cow peas) first and won't plant any vegies in the bed
for at least 6 months. Generally the first crop will be something that bears
the edible part well above the soil, like sweet corn or okra, just to be on
the safe side. Low-growing veg like lettuce or silverbeet wont be planted in
the bed for at least a year, and I prefer to wait around 18 months before
growing any root veg. I have a lot of people coming through here visiting
the gardens and attending catered courses and events so I'm particularly
conscious of reducing risks.

I also use urine diluted (1:10- 1:20) for some potted plants and the garden,
and have a sawdust-composting urinal for volunteers and guests. I also
encourage folk to urinate directly under fruit trees - citrus in particular
thrive on it - and have also noticed it scalds and hence helps control some
nuisance weeds.

BTW fresh urine diluted at 1:20 with water as a foliar spray can also be an
effective fungicide for powdery mildew.

Ciao
Robyn


>
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Thomas Gorman <tom@honeychrome.com>
>> To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Date: 10/15/2006 5:42:04 PM
>> Subject: [permaculture] poop risk
>>
>> <<My oldest daughter contracted typhoid fever while traveling in
>> India when she was 20. It is fecal-oral transmission. Gets in the
>> soil and then in the water and then you drink it. She was being very
>> careful, always using a water bottle with a filter, but on her last
>> day there accepted a glass of Gatorade that she thought came out of a
>> bottle and then to her great dismany, saw the family mixing up some
>> more for her with a powder and their own water. We almost lost her.
>> Very very close call. Not much typhoid in the US but I don't know
>> what else is transmitted that way. Kathy>>
>>
>> That is a terrible and scary story and thankfully it did not have a
>> tragic outcome, but it is just that kind of story, which when
>> presented in an unqualified manner generates irrational fear about
>> humanure composting. The key word here is COMPOSTING, which is a
>> process. What made your daughter sick was not humanure composting,
>> but unsanitary conditions. With proper composting, humanure is safe.
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