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  • From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] permaculture has everything to do with politics
  • Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:04:41 -0400

Paul, I've added some capitals, susbstitutions, articles (a, an, the) comments, questions, and punctuation here and there in your comments to help me make sense of, and give order to, your words. It was a real struggle. It's the editor in me. Complete sentences with accurate punctuation add SO MUCH to the possibility of being understood. You want to be understood, right? Please try to do so. Otherwise reading is a grueling process. Thanks.
Keith

Paul Cereghino wrote:
Politics is a word without meaning like expedience. Expedience in the absence of values is self interest.
Which lead us to conclude that politics without values is......likewise self-interest?
We've lost [given away?] the burden [obligation] of citizenship [and are
thus unable to distinguish between:]

Property rights vs. [and?] property responsibility.
Political rights vs. [or] political responsibility.

I have the following quote on our site which I learned at a Bioregional Congress:
"Slavery is the legal fiction that a person is property. Corporate personhood is the legal fiction that property is a person."

Bill McDonough is a proponent of a Bill of Responsibilities instead of Rights (especially since ours are being shredded to to protect corporate "Freedoms")
Collective power counteracts [obstructs, neutralizes?] individual accumulation of power. For all time bad people have manipulated power.
So have good people for bad reasons. Collectivism is being demonized as a threat to individual rights by right-wingers who fail to recognize that there are good and bad collectives and good and bad individuals.
Political systems create opportunity [-ies] for choosing future as well as [missing word here? present?] power grabs -- double edged [?]. Governance [ment] can slow things down - government slowness is [a] beneficial attribute given the damage that can be done with collective power held by a few.
Collective power held by a few is not too different than dictatorship, the ultimate in individual power.
Political system as object of design. [Heading?]

Permaculture focuses on individual action in physioecological
setting. Not what we say but what we do.
Political systems are trans-physical. They are not necessarily
connected to physical.

System design works [with] interactions and flows as much as
structure of individual elements, with ephasis on [the] effect of
pattern and pattern self-design/replication.
[The] Human is the observer. P r o t r a c t e d observation gives
[us the] ability to predict [the] outcome of action[s] or
self-actualizing pattern[s].

How does this [design?] apply to political [actions? behaviors? persons?]?

Political [action?] has individual mental as well as structural
elements.

Information flows are critical. Mental patterns are as important
[effective?] as physical patterns in creating system behavior. We
need language to talk about the elements and flows of political
systems and how [the] political [system] connects to
physio-ecological systems: things like "memes"; and deconstruction
of democratic infrastructure; and tools of collective restraint.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme)

[I] Did an exercise two weeks ago with a group of planners / scientists
identifying possible future pathways and implications for [the] function of
nearshore ecosystems (where system breakdown occurs at a scale greater than
[the] individual activist [organism?]. It became apparent to me [that there
was] a feedback loop between three elements:

1. individual motive (informed by nature,nurture, and memes)
2. mobilization of collective resources (governance)
3. ecosystem function

What was more interesting was the, "interactions between...":

Connection between individual motive[s] and governance is
dependant on [an] infrastructure for collective design... [i.e.]
being able to predict the outcome of collective actions --
[and/or] choosing futures rather than having life happen to us.
[i.e. ...at cause rather than at effect...not victims?]

Governance is a design process...:
Between individual and ecosystem function[s] is information
feedback down to the political unit level (what is the effective
political unit?).
Protracted observation of [by?]individuals may not be enought to
view cumulative impacts.
Protraction is expensive and either spends individual or
collective capital.

[The] Current meme propagated by [the] powerhungry is about hurrying[,] and that taking a long time to make a decision is wasteful. Individuals don't have [a] body of knowledge to accurately interpret raw information [where a collective might]...
Another set of infrastructure [is needed?], and between governance and
ecosystem function [-] a method of effectively and accurately influencing
collective behavior through feedback systems ([like] taxes, subsidy[ies],
[and] regulation)

I dont care if its [we] regulate with elder wisdom or regulate with pencil
necked bureaucrats.Its still tax, subsidize or regulate.

Liberal thinking leans on this [the] fantasy that individual enlightenment flows to collective righteousness. [This is] perhaps self delusion. Why wouldn't [the] system require design and rearrangement of elements to function?
Political individuals are not just individual people. [The], "one person, one vote", thing isn't real.
I'm personally fonder of the, "One organism, one vote" system, myself. But how do we count the trillions, quadrillions, etc.?
People self organize into political clusters with shared motives and values.
This is the level of organization that [political?] infrastructure must
address. Exclusion of political units we don't like doesn't work. Survival
is in everyones interest.
...including the trillions.
Three information infrastructures need to be designed:

1. effective feedback from ecosystem to individual political units
2. effective feedbacks for modifying market behavior
3. effective feebacks from [? I think you need to type slower.]

[The] Primary disfu[n]ction[s] [though perhaps you MEANT disFUCKtion] is
[are:]

* information flow between elements,

* lack of infrastructure

and in that vacuum...

* control of information by individuals of all political
stripes trying to manipulate failing system (yep...
propaganda is what propaganda does).

Imagine 10 people wearing blindfold and ear protection trying to work with an elephant to build a bridge having using only a cattle prod.
[The] elephant [represents the] collective resources, [the deaf and blind (and dumb?)] people are political units, [the] bridge is [the] ecosystem, [and the] cattle prod is [the] governance infrastructure. [The] elephant feet vs. trunk [represents the] influence of [the] market on [the] ecosystem. [The] headgear prevents feedback of [to the] elephant driver.
Is this an accurate conceptual model as a basis for design?
The perma-experimental process doesn't necessarily apply. We are gardening [or cultivating] human socio-political nature.
How do you chisel plow the human weed field? How do you chicken tractor the populace (focus their pecking to do useful work) [Are you answering your question or asking another?]

Permaculture is about benevolent manipulation is it not?
We are not self-actualizing the chicken... it is being placed, manipulated, or constrained to fulfil [an] ecosystem function. Why would design of our society involve any less rigorous placement, manipulation or constraint? Destructive manipulation of information by broken individuals must be [not "should", but seems to be?] part of the design...
Honey, I think there was some good stuff in there...but if you talk like you write, you probably confuse people.
Paul Cereghino
Olympia, Washington, USA


Rain Tenaqiya wrote:
In addition to what Robyn Francis and others had to say, permaculture is about creating permanent culture. Politics is simply the creation of social policy, which is one of the ways that we create culture. There are a lot of random posts on this list, so I don't want to encourage more, but if we can suggest ways of applying the permaculture principles and design methods to address political problems, then please do so. Obviously, the Bush administration understands the principle that what goes around comes around and they are trying to block the free functioning of feedback for their actions. Despite what some New Agers and other religionists say, it does seem possible for individuals to largely escape retribution for harmful actions. But what about the effects on future generations? If they are good politicians, the bushies should be able to turn a problem into a solution. Let's see.
Rain
--
Keith Johnson
Permaculture Activist Magazine
PO Box 5516
Bloomington, IN 47408
(812) 335-0383
http://www.permacultureactivist.net
also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
also APPLE-Bloomington (Alliance for a Post-Petroleum Local Economy)
It's a small world after oil.

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