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Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 40, Issue 39

From: "Maureen Sutton" <suttonmaureen@hotmail.com>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 40, Issue 39
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 05:55:07 -0400

I'm in sand, so double-digging is not my issue. But as I read about it, I'm wondering why humusy stuff is not added while the double digging happens. Won't the clay eventually settle back as it was? Why go to all that trouble and not amend at the same time?
Just some thoughts from the Sandhills of NC.

Maureen

From: permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
Reply-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 40, Issue 39
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 04:05:09 -0400

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: keeping cool (Niels Corfield)
2. the double-digging issue (robscott@freeshell.org)
3. Re: ||Double-Digging - NOT (Don)
4. Re: Global Food Supply Near the Breaking Point ||
Double-Digging and John Jeavons' methods and books
(Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
5. Re: keeping cool (Robert Waldrop)
6. Re: Multiple digging without so much work. (Keith Johnson)
7. Re: Multiple digging without so much work. (Loren Davidson)
8. Re: keeping cool (Marimike6@cs.com)
9. Re: keeping cool (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 00:55:26 +0100
From: Niels Corfield <mudguard@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] keeping cool
To: evansdk@earthlink.net, permaculture
<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <447CDB6E.5080509@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Simple answer is to plant trees or deciduous vines that shade the south
facing aspect of your house.
More specifically you should design with shade and plants.

It is just this kind of issue that it is worth taking a course to resolve.
Most people don't really have clear design goals when taking a course
but you will, if you haven't already look into a Permaculture Design
Course or an Intro to Permaculture. Though the former would be more
thorough and you could use the resource of the teacher and the course,
and support of the other students, to design a solution to your problem
of seasonal temps/dwellings and get all sorts of other advantageous
outputs like: food and fuel.

It will not be a "quick" fix but it will be a good one, and it will be
yours. That said some trees (e.g. Red alder) and vines will give shade
in the second season, depending how close and how densely planted.

Another design option is to create a trellis structure/arbour or
shade-house outside, one that could have vines grow over it later but
you would cover with palm leaves, tree branches, or any other material
or fabric available.
It really doesn't have to be anything grand. perhaps just some timbers
leaned against your house, fixed to the wall and buried in the ground.

Then when it rains you go indoors, or plant vine seeds/cuttings around
your shade house.
And in the winter your trees get planted.

Some books show dwelling design examples that incorporate shade houses.
Mollison's Intro to Permaculture
http://www.fetchbook.info/compare.do?search=0908228082

But again a design course is what really unlocks the door the box of
delights.

Allthebest,
Niels
http://del.icio.us/entrailer
http://nocompost.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65387153@N00/

Kathy Evans wrote:

>Hello all, Kathy in Missouri, new to the list, thanks for the welcome
>earlier. I am trying to reduce my "energy footprint" but I turn into wilted
>lettuce when it's hot and humid not to mention I get very cranky. I would
>like ideas for keeping the house cooler without a/c, given that I can't
>afford to install new equipment at the moment, and/or for keeping myself
>cool. I work at home. I take many brief cool showers. I've heard of putting
>a bowl of ice in front of a fan but haven't tried it. Thanks, Kathy
>
>_______________________________________________
>permaculture mailing list
>permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 00:33:21 +0000 (UTC)
From: "robscott@freeshell.org" <robscott@freeshell.org>
Subject: [permaculture] the double-digging issue
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.62.0605310007210.19774@sdf.lonestar.org>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

I took the Grow Biointensive Introductory Course with John Jeavons this
spring. Having become familiar with the hearsay about the double-digging
method, I wanted to hear Jeavons make the case for it himself. I was
impressed by the thoroughness of the research they've done out there in
Willits, California, as well as other places such as Mexico and Kenya.

The Biointensive system is designed to meet human needs on the smallest
piece of land with minimal or no inputs. That's why annual vegetables and
double digging (on-site human labor) are emphasized. They grow crops for
calories and carbon (for compost) and aim for self-reliance with minimal
input.

The double-digging makes sense where there are old, deep, clay soils. In
these areas, crop growth can be severely limited by lack of oxygen to the
roots, and double digging ensures that any area can become productive
right away by improving drainage.

Here in Illinois, there are more than 10 million acres with drainage pipes
installed to create the same effect in America's agricultural heartland.
Most of America's corn, soy, and wheat comes from fields with deep
drainage, comparable to double dug beds. What Jeavons did is develop a
small scale system for communities, and kept track of what worked and what
didn't, so that people with limited land and clay soil could have a hope
for self reliance in vegetables using simple tools, seed-saving, and
compost. As he said to me: if you can get better results without double
digging in your area, do a comparison and let's publish the data.

Areas with less than 10" of soils don't really count against this
system, Mitch, because they don't have deep anaerobic soil dynamics. Rock
isn't soil. The design principle, if you will, is getting oxygen to plant
roots, not only water. In some areas this won't be a major issue. Sandy
soils, for instance. The issue is oxygen. Double-digging is just one
method.

Rob
Urbana, IL

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 17:42:27 -0700
From: "Don" <ujgs@4dirs.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] ||Double-Digging - NOT
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <01f301c6844b$17c09af0$0201a8c0@dons>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Hey Folks,
I have heavy clay soils here in Mesa,AZ and I used to dig twice a year to
prep for the spring and fall.
Now I do NOT dig...I tickle the surface enouth to prep for seeds and that's
it.

I "Do no harm" to the living organisms and the biodiverse system that does
the work for me...I replace the compost, plant worms, spray EM's, and use
boards to stay off the soil and limit compaction. This allows the soil
organisms to do the work for me "I can sit on the patio couch (mollison
technique) knowing I set up the system to be more sustainable"

My veggie bed is raised 6 inches, 20x20, spray irrigation (to volitate the
chlorine from my tap water), org fert w/ em's, and then rotate the chickens
in the bed!!!

My seeds come up the same, my yields are the same and my Chiropractor gets
less $$$.

Don Titmus, Four Directions PermaCulture.
Mesa, AZ.

----- Original Message -----
From: "E. E. Mitchamore Jr" <emitch@att.net>
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Global Food Supply Near the Breaking Point
||Double-Digging and John Jeavons' methods and books

> Three comments about double-digging:
>
> 1) My soil is single-dig deep (then rock).
> 2) In the absence of mechanical disturbance (introducing air) there is
> little nutrient-producing biological activity below a foot of depth. Thus
> it's not very "natural".
> 3) It's HARD WORK!
>
> So, if Jeavons' concepts are based on double-digging, it's not for me.
>
> E. E. "Mitch" Mitchamore
> www.hillcountrynatives.biz
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lawrence F. London, Jr.
> To: permaculture
> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 1:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Global Food Supply Near the Breaking Point ||
> Double-Digging and John Jeavons' methods and books
>
>
>
> Double digging a garden plot may be the best way to improve soil without
> using
> any power equipment. Alan Chadwick and John Jeavons developed the method
> and popularized it through lectures, workshops and publications. This
> method
> began being widely used during the 1960's-1980's as many companies
> marketed
> imported English-style garden tools that worked best when using this
> gardening method.
> The basic array included short D-handled tools such as a digging spade
> (straight point),
> a digging fork and a spade fork. You could do it all with these three
> tools. A rake,
> garden spade, pitchfork or compost fork and manure fork or potato digger
> were also used.
>
> A few references:
>
> Ecology Action
> http://www.growbiointensive.org/biointensive/GROW-BIOINTENSIVE.html
> Jeavons' Books, Seeds and More:
> http://www.bountifulgardens.org/
> John Jeavons' books:
> "How To Grow More Vegetables That You Thought Possible On Less Land Than
> You Can Imagine"
> New 6th Edition
> http://www.growbiointensive.org/biointensive/book.html
>
> Alan Chadwick lectures
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/orgfarm/permaculture/Alan.Chadwick/
>
> Gardening Hand Tool SOurcelist
> http://market-farming.com/gardening-hand-tools.faq
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> _______________________________________________
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> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 21:08:26 -0400
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Global Food Supply Near the Breaking Point
|| Double-Digging and John Jeavons' methods and books
To: "E. E. Mitchamore Jr" <emitch@att.net>, permaculture
<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <447CEC8A.2020308@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

E. E. Mitchamore Jr wrote:

> Three comments about double-digging:
>
> 1) My soil is single-dig deep (then rock).
> 2) In the absence of mechanical disturbance (introducing air) there is little nutrient-producing biological activity below a foot of depth. Thus it's not very "natural".
> 3) It's HARD WORK!
>
> So, if Jeavons' concepts are based on double-digging, it's not for me.

He co-authored a book just for you: "Lazy Bed Gardening".
Above-ground containerized raised beds will work fine.
Get some free rock dust from a local quarry and mix it with manures and compost;
add also greensand, azomite, rock phosphate, high calcium limestone, aragonits,
blood meal, kelp meal, alfalfa meal. Work your soil as deep as you can then segment off your individual garden plots and
build masonry walls around them two feet tall. Add the above materials, mix well, plant and water. Build tranlucent
covers of nontoxic pressure treated lumber and sheets of polycarbonate to extend your growing season into cold weather.

LL

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 20:25:44 -0500
From: "Robert Waldrop" <bwaldrop@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] keeping cool
To: <evansdk@earthlink.net>, "permaculture"
<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <03ec01c68451$23991450$5c960c44@bobcomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

I live in Oklahoma City and this is our sixth
summer without air conditioning in our central
city home. Here is a link to an essay I wrote
describing how we manage to keep cool and
comfortable without AC.

http://www.energyconservationinfo.org/noacok.htm

Bob Waldrop, OKC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathy Evans" <evansdk@earthlink.net>
> Hello all, Kathy in Missouri, new to the list,
> thanks for the welcome
> earlier. I am trying to reduce my "energy
> footprint" but I turn into wilted
> lettuce when it's hot and humid not to mention I
> get very cranky. I would
> like ideas for keeping the house cooler without
> a/c, given that I can't
> afford to install new equipment at the moment,
> and/or for keeping myself
> cool. I work at home. I take many brief cool
> showers. I've heard of putting
> a bowl of ice in front of a fan but haven't
> tried it. Thanks, Kathy
>

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 21:50:58 -0400
From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Multiple digging without so much work.
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <447CF682.6080507@mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Jeavon's book entered my gardening library 31 years ago. Ruth Stout's
mulch books were my first. I did them both....a lot.... and now for the
last 20 years I don't double dig, or even dig, if I can avoid it. I'm
starting another home garden on a new site with very heavy clay (the
kind you can roll into a pencil....very quickly...it wants to be a
wetland or pond). At the age of 53, having previously personally bodily
moved thousands and thousands of tons of rock, soil, mulch, gravel,
compost, and more, I am electing to not dig once again. No need to work
hard to produce the amount I have time to attend to. I rely heavily on
perennials. I harvest my lawn and shrubbery and trees for mulch and
glean the neighborhood for additional input. Salads are easy and so many
things (like perennials) are next to effortless to grow. I could double
dig. I still have the stamina and even, occasionally, time to do
it....but I'm not likely to do so. If I were trying to set some kind of
local record for production, I might aerate the soil a little more. But
I don't grow mostly annual vegetables (which prefer bacterially
dominated soils...perens prefer fungal domination...kinky, eh?). I end
up challenging most of my annuals to tolerate higher levels of fungal
soil since I have so many perennials. I save seed and find that open
pollinated types can "learn" to thrive in many soil types as long as
there is enough decomposing litter (and sometimes minerals) for them.
With mulch I find that "pests" like voles, moles, etc, do an excellent
job of "multiple digging", then the worms, millipedes, and pillbugs do
their jobs of converting carbon, so I don't have to compost. Turns
several problems into a solution. I'm quite fond of hugelkultur, too
(which can also can yield a lovely compost for seedling mix).

Keith

Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote:

>Charles de Matas wrote:
>
>
>> Any idea why the indifference to double digging? I am giving it a try,
>>to help with my compacted soil. I double dug a small area some months ago
>>and am now waiting for some rain to plant in it. It may not necessarily be
>>more labour intensive than non-digging methods. It can be done on a small
>>scale in zone 1 near the house. If it produces more yield per sq. m. and
>>reduces need for water it may actually save labour (at least that's the
>>theory).
>>
>>
>
>Double digging a garden plot may be the best way to improve soil without using
>any power equipment.
>

--
Keith Johnson
Permaculture Activist Magazine
PO Box 5516
Bloomington, IN 47408
(812) 335-0383
http://www.permacultureactivist.net
also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting

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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 19:26:08 -0700
From: Loren Davidson <listmail@lorendavidson.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Multiple digging without so much work.
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <a06230500c0a2ad65a78f@[192.168.0.102]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

At 9:50 PM -0400 5/30/06, Keith Johnson wrote:
>Jeavon's book entered my gardening library 31 years ago. Ruth
>Stout's mulch books were my first. I did them both....a lot.... and
>now for the last 20 years I don't double dig, or even dig, if I can
>avoid it.

I'm with Keith on this.

I've done my share of double-digging in the past. Somewhere along the
line, I think I figured out why the Brits call this "bastard
trenching." :)

These days, unless I'm planting something like a tree or shrub, I
don't dig. I try to follow the Pc principle of "letting Nature do the
work.) For a quickie garden bed, I'll put down a layer of cardboard
or newspaper, cover with several inches of compost, and just plant my
seeds or transplants into the compost. I'll usually make a cut in the
paper/cardboard below each plant. When I have time to plan ahead,
I'll build a sheet mulch bed, let it rot for 3-6 months, and then
plant into that. I like Toby's sheet mulch recipe from _Gaia's
Garden_; it really *is* bulletproof.

If I'm planting into heavy clay, I usually fork into the soil before
layering stuff on top of it, just to provide some starter holes for
roots. I don't dig, I don't turn or lift the soil with the spading
fork; I just wiggle it into the ground with my weight on it and pull
it out again. Once I've done this, I let the plant roots and the
worms and other detritivores start mixing my layers of stuff with the
underlying soil.

Now if only I had a no-dig solution for my shrubs and trees...

Loren
--
Loren Davidson listmail@lorendavidson.com
Music with tropical attitude - http://www.lorendavidson.com
"There's just too much to see waiting in front of me, and I know
that I can't go wrong" - J. Buffett

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 03:01:03 EDT
From: Marimike6@cs.com
Subject: Re: [permaculture] keeping cool
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <3de.3b45915.31ae992f@cs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Prevailing breezes above roof level are frequently as much as 15-20 degrees
cooler than ground level air. In Pakistan for the past 3,000 years people have
put tall vents atop their homes, with the openings angled toward the
prevailing winds. That way when it gets to be 120 degrees outside, a cooling 100 degree
breeze can circulate down the shaft and into the home.

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 04:05:01 -0400
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] keeping cool
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <447D4E2D.301@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Marimike6@cs.com wrote:

> Prevailing breezes above roof level are frequently as much as 15-20 degrees
> cooler than ground level air. In Pakistan for the past 3,000 years people have
> put tall vents atop their homes, with the openings angled toward the
> prevailing winds. That way when it gets to be 120 degrees outside, a cooling 100 degree
> breeze can circulate down the shaft and into the home.

Passive cooling has been around forever in the Middle East, perhaps even before the Islamic Moors of
North Africa (or were they originally from the middle east/Mediterranean/breadbasket area?) colonized Southern Spain,
built the Alhambra and started the first university and the first library while many of our ancestors were running
around in bearskins proving Darwin's theories and, no doubt, brought solar cooling to the West as well.

They build masonry solar chimneys between a large domed cistern and a multi-storied dwelling. The chimnet has openings
near the top with metal plates mounted vertically and set back from the opening. The sun heats the plate and causes
convection currents in the tower. This pulls cool damp air from the cistern into the dwelling, up throug the floors to
finally exit through a wall back into the chimney and out the top.

------------------------------

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End of permaculture Digest, Vol 40, Issue 39
********************************************

Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 40, Issue 39, Maureen Sutton, 05/31/2006
- Re: [permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 40, Issue 39, Kevin Topek, 05/31/2006