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permaculture - Re: [permaculture] Re: permaculture Digest, Vol 22, Issue 9

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  • From: Jay Woods <woodsjay@cox.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Re: permaculture Digest, Vol 22, Issue 9
  • Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:14:18 -0500

There is far too much overengineering here. Remember that 10 foot diameter
corrugated steel pipe (http://www.ncspa.org/ for the trade association and
http://www.acipco.com/ for an example company) is used to give farmers access
to their fields underneath freeways and to provide drainage for streams. The
key thought here is that arched structures (like hobbit holes) carry far more
load for the cross section than do load bearing flat ceilings.

On Monday 08 November 2004 10:22 am, Scott Pittman wrote:
> re: Hobbit hole
>
> > Back in the early 80's there was a community built underground using
> > ferrocement, I visited it at that time. It is near Denton, Texas. It
> > was featured in several magazines but beyond that I can't help, except
> > to say it can and has been done. I have also seen them built with
> > remesh attached to the walls by driving rebar into the soil to hold
> > the remesh and then using gunnite to cover the walls, which is basic
> > swimming pool technology.
>
> The only real concern when building underground is ground water and
> expansive clays, if you don't have those impinging on the building
> envelope then it is just a matter of engineering. If you are using thin
> wall ferrocement for the walls remember that they are not load bearing
> capable; therefore you will have to support the roof with cement piers
> or some such, and those piers should be well back from the excavated
> edge so that they do not exert pressure on the ferrocement walls when
> they are loaded, probable five or six feet depending on soil type and
> compaction.
>
> Scott P.
>
> >on 11/7/04 9:00 AM, permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org at
> >
> >permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
> >>Message: 3
> >>Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 18:18:01 -0800 (PST)
> >>From: Paul Wheaton <paul@richsoil.com>
> >>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Source for Hobbit hole construct...
> >>To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> >>Message-ID: <20041107021801.39779.qmail@web13811.mail.yahoo.com>
> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >>
> >>I thought of that, but thought it would get plenty expensive. But your
> >> site makes a case
> >>for something pretty thin. Hmmmmm ....
> >>
> >>So how thin could I get away with? And, would I need to create some sort
> >> of ridge to
> >>support the weight of the earth above it?
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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