permaculture

[David Neeley <dbneeley@gmail.com>]

Is it really necessary to begin a flame war regarding urban vs. rural
vs. suburban living and whether or not it can be lived sustainably?

Is it germane to the state of permaculture today to attempt to require
that the original concept may not be as comprehensive as today we may
prefer?

There are points both good and bad about urban living. If we were to
have a clean sheet of paper to design high-density population centers,
there is little doubt we would want to do it differently--but so what?
The fact is that we *have* those high-density urban centers as they
are. The real question, it seems to me, is how to make them as livable
as possible for their residents while being as sustainable as possible
now and into the future.

Are such urban centers supportable when a finite resource such as oil
begins to disappear? Since the bulk of the food and other consumables
enters the urban centers from a considerable distance away, unless
changes are made it is doubtful.

At the same time, suburban life seems even more dependent upon the oil
economy than the urban in many ways.

There are many problems for which there are no convenient and easy
solutions, and there are some individuals who in their attempts to be
intellectually challenging may appear to be abrasive or difficult.
That does not mean either that their questions are not worth
considering or that they should not attempt to be less irritating to
those who are inclined to be easily irritated IMHO.

I would think that most list members are far more advanced than am I
on issues of permaculture...I am only a beginner with the concept and
practices, after all. However, it is far more interesting to try to
place some of these issues into a meaningful context and analyze them
logically rather than engaging in personalities and secondary aspects
of the main concerns we should all share.

For example: What is the existing condition in New York (in this
case)...both good and not so good points. Given that the city exists,
what can be done to make it more self-sustaining than it is and a more
nourishing environment for its inhabitants? What kinds of changes will
be most likely to happen through the foreseeable future that will
impact the city and its inhabitants? Are there specific kinds of
changes that may be practically brought about that will ameliorate the
worst likely outcomes?

>From the individual level--what are the relative merits and demerits
of urban, suburban, and rural life? Is it truly possible to live by
permaculture principles in any of these milieu? (Even "under a
bridge?"). If we agree that spreading the "gospel" of permaculture
more widely among our neighbors is a desirable thing, how is this best
accomplished?

As a list of individuals interacting with some shared interests, in
what ways can we discern how best to offer our individual experience
and expertise to each other in a way best calculated to increase the
average level of knowledge for all? Or is this even a desirable goal?

Surely any of these--and many other--subjects have much to offer in
fruitful discussion beyond the unproductive labels and attacks?

Cordially,

David