permaculture

["Tradingpost" <tradingpost@gilanet.com>]

You're involved in these urban questions and in a position to influence 
change to some extent. Probably you've heard the negatives about green or 
sustainable urban planning, the "new cities" thing. Critics have pointed out 
that new neighborhoods built with the best intentions still have to end up 
having to compromise by accommodating the automobile, because so many still 
drive to work and shop. I'd welcome thoughts on this.

paul@largocreekfarms.com
http://medicinehill.net

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 10/19/2004 at 8:51 PM Will Carey wrote:

>on 10/19/04 6:12 PM, permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org at
>permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
>
>> But it almost seems too easy to criticize cities and idealize rural
>life.  I
>> know Toby warns against this, and makes a good case, but I would also
>refrain
>> from citing per capita statistics - considering that while per capita
>costs
>> may be small, the overall cost of the system they compose may be
>enormous.
>
>Stephanie...
>
>You are correct!  The imbedded energy costs of all urban system support is
>incredible.
>
>Unfortunately, I don't know of anyone who's done good research on the
>subject.  Mathias Wenkernegal started down that line of inquiry at UBC's
>Planning school in the late 80's... We started his PhD research on energy
>throughput modeling of urban systems.  But his mentor, Bill Reese, talked
>him into researching a developing the concept we know of as "Ecological
>Footprints".
>
>So the question of energy-efficiency lifestyles is high-density cities like
>Manhattan, etc. is still open... And there's no good way of incorporating
>some of the resource/ waste/ livability issues into a good systems model.
>And where do you draw the line on accounting the total system?  The whole
>of
>the " commute-shed"..which can cover counties? Or even the whole of the
>"food-shed". ... Which can be global
>
>What dense cities do provide is a great opportunity for saving energy...
>
>This also begs the question of why we haven't incorporated Richard
>Register's EcoCities concepts into the Permaculture curriculum.  The
>strongest theme expressed is "priority by proximity" ... Which is equatible
>to "Guilding" in Permaculture.
>
>Register even quotes from the Permaculture Activist on page 160 of
>EcoCities... A short essay on "proximity power"
>
>But the last time I co-taught a Permaculture course ten years ago... I got
>a
>lot of blank stares from everyone about incorporating concepts from Richard
>Register, Paolo Soleri, John Todd and John Tillman Lyle into the PC course
>curriculum.
>
>I also had an article in the now-defunct EcoCity Journal about zoning and
>sector strategies for integrating PC concepts into Urban Planning and
>EcoVillage design.
>
>I'm not sure if there's been a review of EcoCities in the Permaculture
>Activist, but there should be... Register spends several pages (pp. 117-
>120) talking about Permaculture as one of the foundational concepts in New
>Paradigm thinking.
>
>-- Will Carey, Director
>Center for Urban & Rural Ecology
>32861 Lake Creek Drive
>Halsey, OR 97348
>cure@rtinet.com
>541.369.2936
>
>
>
>
>
>
>This
>
>
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