permaculture

[Will Carey <cure@rtinet.com>]

In reply to Paul...

on 9/17/04 8:22 PM, permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org at
permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:

> I suspect those who are sooo impressed by workshops
> have never been introduced to the work of Elliot Coleman, the Nearings,
> Ruth Stout, Joel Sallatin, Fukuoka, the Rodales, Jeavons, Steiner, and
> many, many others.

Incorrect, again sir.

I found the Nearing's work kind of boring... I'd learned that kind of thing
first-hand from my Grandparents in the '50s... Fukuoka's book started me on
the path to PC.  It was the PC course that "gelled" it all.  PC's the
"holistic design" methodology that pulled it all together for me.

If you didn't  "get" the design thinking paradigm, I'm not surprised.
Design work in PDCs has been watered down...

But ... Maybe I need to re-tell the original Permie joke:

Q:  How many Permies does it take to plant a tree?

A:  Five....  One to hold the tree and four to design the hole.

(joke is public domain , BTW)

Which is why I describe PC as Agritecture... or Landscape Architecture for
Farmers.  

It's why Mollison starts a public lecture with the "chooks"... Describing
the chicken's needs and behaviors as design attributes.  Learning to view
the world in terms functional interdependence is the first task in PC
training.  Weaving all those links into a "whole cloth" is the first job of
the PC designer.   

And PC includes all: . ... Larry Korn, editor of One Straw Revolution, was a
co-instructor at our 1982 PDC. Larry introduced me to Fukuoka at the 1986
Permaculture convergence.. Fukuoka later lectured in the garden while
casting seeds by hand.

I shared a tent with Allan Savory of Holistic Management at the '86
Convergence.  

Emelia Hazelip lectured at our CUE center in Seattle.  I swapped her a
vintage copy of Plowman's Folly for dubs of her videos of Fukuoka and Ruth
Stout.  

And I resent your tone,sir.... My PDCs in 82 and 85 did change my life.

I've sacrificed too much for the sake of this work to put up with abuse:

> I AM saying that if almost nobody comes out practicing
> real permaculture, then it's frankly nothing but talk. Literally. All this
> "ooooh it changed my life", when it changed absolutely nothing, is really
> lame. I want to hear about people doing permaculture and how they go about
> it. Do I have to hunt for some other list for that, or start one myself so
> it won't be dominated by sales pitches for workshops and testimonials to
> their wonderfulness?

I'd love to share my practical PC experience with you.  But first I must ask
for some respect.  

If you can't pay me for my time, at least treat me... And the many others
like me.....with some decency.

If not, I'm sure there's a PC list somewhere that's free from
"wonderfulness".   Spread your venom there.

-- 
Will Carey, Director
Center for Urban & Rural Ecology