permaculture

[Bruce Blair <bbwelch@rconnect.com>]

> Evenin',

I don't often respond to this list but Permaculture in Cuba is irresistible 
for me.  Traveling (legally- difficult for an American due to our
laws, not Cuba's) to Cuba is one of my passions and on my last trip (2002) I 
did some investigation into PC and agriculture in Havana and
points west.  I have little to report except this:  Quite coincidentally 
while there so was my Minnesota governor at the time Jesse "The Body"
Ventura, who was attending the large agricultural convention.  This 
convention featured the Cargills, ADM et. al (corporations paid for
Venturas trip).  There was considerable excitement that maybe this convention 
was the beginning of the end of the embargo and I could not
detect much, or any, concern about the large multi-nationals and what they 
might do to a country's sovereignty, or landscape, or culture or
anything.   I especially remember a conversation with a representative of a 
federation of agriculture workers unions - she thought the concept
of access to these giants was great.  In fairness though there were elements 
at the convention that emphasized family scale farming.  Some
Cubans engaged in agriculture that I talked to seemed to embrace ecological 
approaches to agriculture more out of need than conviction.  I
told them that I feared for Cuba.

My experiences are getting dated and were not comprehensive.   I would 
appreciate any up-to-date info related to PC in Cuba.  I'm working on
another trip with an emphasis on agriculture.
Bruce
Minnesota


>
>

>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Permaculture in Cuba  (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>    2. Re: making dyes with vegetable matter/leaves, roots,      flowers
>       (Mike Barnett)
>    3. larry's arrival time (L.SantoyoDesigns)
>    4. Mea Culpa (L.SantoyoDesigns)
>    5. Re: Tibet (Robyn Francis)
>    6. Re: Upcoming California Bay Area Courses and  Events
>       (Selwyn Polit)
>    7. PC classes (McFarlandAIA@aol.com)
>    8. hello, and a question about PCD course prices
>       (neotern-1@yahoo.com)
>    9. [Fwd: [permacultureinfo] Permaculture.info Website]
>       (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>   10. RE: hello, and a question about PCD course prices (Carrie Shepard)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 12:47:18 -0700
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture in Cuba
> To: 'permaculture' <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <413F61C6.1030101@intrex.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Is permaculture (per se) being practiced and taught in Cuba?
> Are there any online resources on this topic?
>
> What would happen if Cuba became the 54th US state? Would the 
> multinationals, i.e. Monsanto, ADM, Cargill
> and others move in, shove aside all existing Cuban organic farming, 
> vermicomposting, PC and other natural technologies beyone value?
>
> There must be a way for the Cuban people to keep what they have yet be free 
> of the yoke of communism and domination by multinational
> ag conglomerates and transnational trade agreements like NAFTA.
>
> Is there a PC-flavored democratic solution to solve Cuba's economic and 
> development problems. I don't think it is Cuba's destiny to become
> a mid-Carribean whorehouse as some have implied.
>
> Comments?
>
> --
> L.F.London
> lfl@intrex.net
> http://market-farming.com
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:47:19 -0600
> From: "Mike Barnett" <dreadlox@cwjamaica.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] making dyes with vegetable matter/leaves,
>         roots,  flowers
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <02d801c495d4$45b60a60$ee8cfea9@Mikey>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I have found many references if you do a Yahoo or google search.
> I was once looking for references on how to dye straw naturally.
>
> I grow Turmeric. It is a very bright yellow, and stains cloth easily. You
> could try cooking the cloth in curry powder if you cannot get 'pure'
> turmeric powder.
> The berries of spinach (malabar) stains a purple tone too.
>
> Those are 2 that come to mind...
>
> Mike
> JAMAICA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephanie Caroline Chappell" <schappel@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
> To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:36 PM
> Subject: [permaculture] making dyes with vegetable matter/leaves,
> roots,flowers
>
> Hello,
> As I am new to this list serv, I would like to thank you all people
> for posting and sharing your experiences on line.
>
> I would like to dye fabric with the children. Does anybody out there
> have any hands-experiences to share: Vibrant colors, what works well,
> what mordant to use...
>
> Also does anybody have any insight on how to make paints with plants?
>
> Thank you for any help you might be able to contribute.
>
> En Paix,
> Stephanie.
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 14:08:44 -0700
> From: "L.SantoyoDesigns" <santoyo@earthflow.com>
> Subject: [permaculture] larry's arrival time
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <a05210604bd652433580e@[64.4.131.42]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> Hi Toby,
>
> I believe Larry will still be calling you before Fri (we're just
> recovering from Sierra's wedding Sunday and now we're working on
> Eli's start at college on Sat., in-between our camping status at the
> new zone), but I wanted to let you know that he will be arriving by
> bus to the Greyhound station in San Jose, at 1pm Friday.
>
> (I'll be driving up Sat evening, so we will be able to take you to
> the airport on Sunday).
>
> Looking forward to seeing you again,
>
> Kathryn
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 14:27:14 -0700
> From: "L.SantoyoDesigns" <santoyo@earthflow.com>
> Subject: [permaculture] Mea Culpa
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <a05210607bd652939866e@[64.4.131.42]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> Wow. Forgive me for that accidental posting.
>
> Kathryn Santoyo
>
> >Hi Toby,
> >
> >I believe Larry will still be calling you before Fri (we're just
> >recovering from Sierra's wedding Sunday and now we're working on
> >Eli's start at college on Sat., in-between our camping status at the
> >new zone), but I wanted to let you know that he will be arriving by
> >bus to the Greyhound station in San Jose, at 1pm Friday.
> >
> >(I'll be driving up Sat evening, so we will be able to take you to
> >the airport on Sunday).
> >
> >Looking forward to seeing you again,
> >
> >Kathryn
> >_______________________________________________
> >permaculture mailing list
> >permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 07:45:43 +1000
> From: Robyn Francis <erda@nor.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Tibet
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <BD646927.2FCE%erda@nor.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Also check out Permaculture International's web site - has an article about
> a permaculture course conducted with the Tibetan Government in Exile.
>  www.permacultureinternational.org
>
> Robyn
>
> On 7/9/04 5:04 PM, "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > A few links for those interested in Tibet and campaigns on behalf of 
> > Tibetans
> > still in their homeland and in exile:
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------------------------------------
> >
> > Tibetan Flag pix for website logos to go with Tibet links
> >
> http://images.google.com/images?q=tibflag.gif&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Searc>
> h
> >
> > Code-ready for insertion in your website:
> >
> > <br><a href="http://www.tibet.com/index.html";>The Government of Tibet In
> > Exile</a>
> > <br><a href="http://www.freetibet.org/";>Free Tibet Campaign</a>
> > <br><a href="http://www.tibetinfo.net/";>Tibet Information Network</a>
> > <br><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3625588.stm";>BBC 
> > News on
> > Chinese intrusion into Tibet 9/6/2004</a>
> >
> > LL
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 17:29:31 -0500
> From: Selwyn Polit <selwyn@austintx.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Upcoming California Bay Area Courses and
>         Events
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040908172843.02d662f0@mail.austintx.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Can you add ours in Austin, TX USA?  The flyer is attached.
>
> >Here's a list of upcoming California Bay Area (and beyond) Permaculture
> >Courses and Gatherings.
> >
> >http://urbanpermacultureguild.org/pcttOSInfosheetOS2004.html
> >
> >Peace
> >~Kat
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >permaculture mailing list
> >permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
>
> __________
> Selwyn Polit
> (512)926-7876
> <mailto:selwyn@austintx.com>selwyn@austintx.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:39:14 EDT
> From: McFarlandAIA@aol.com
> Subject: [permaculture] PC classes
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <129.4b0f29e8.2e710032@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Yes,
>
> And also classes given in Houston, Texas. We have a Designer's Certification
> Series starting tomorrow, Sept. 8. We teach a "working man's" class in 3
> sections which can be taken in any sequence.
>
> Check www.urbanharvest.org and hit the Permaculture key for a complete class
> listing. Our prices are very reasonable.
>
> Shawn McFarland, AIA, LEED
> Permaculture Guild of Houston
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:47:21 -0500 (CDT)
> From: <neotern-1@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [permaculture] hello, and a question about PCD course prices
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <20040909124721.86733.qmail@web61203.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm new on the list, so maybe it's a good idea to
> start of with a brief introduction...
>
> I'm a 31 year old Belgian male, ex-industrial engineer
> (only the diploma, never worked it), ex-artist (short
> career stopped because of no sense), ex-cultural
> installer (more fun than art, see
> http://home.pi.be/~bv313716/cultinst/index2.htm), and
> now fresh and very motivated permaculturist-to-be,
> still without land but that should change soon. My
> wife Yuriria (or Yuri), who is Mexican, and I plan to
> move to the Mexican countryside early next year and
> take care of a piece of mother earth over there. Until
> then we're living in Brussels, Belgium.
>
> I have a question concerning the Permaculture Designer
> Courses, but before that, I have to say that getting
> in touch with permaculture (through Bill Mollison's
> "Permaculture Designer's Manual", and afterwards by
> contacting Mr. Cardon in Mouscron, Belgium, who has a
> magnificent permaculture garden since 30 years) really
> changed our perspective on a lot of things, opened our
> eyes, and a door to a meaningful future, so nothing
> than the biggest of praise and thankfulness to
> permaculture and permaculture activists around the
> globe.
>
> One thing about permaculture is bugging us a bit,
> however. I hope not to offend anybody on this list
> saying this, but we feel that the prices for the
> Permaculture Designer Course are somewhat exorbitant,
> and in fact, are an obstacle for the spread of
> permaculture around the globe - and the globe really
> needs permaculture.
> We see prices ranging from 600 US$ (in Oaxaca, Mexico)
> to over 1,400US$ for 72-hours or 15-day courses
> (granted, food and stay included, but still...), and
> are a bit puzzled. We ask ourselves who can afford
> this. If we look at this from a Mexican point of vue
> for instance, no-one in Mexico but the (very) rich
> could afford to spend this kind of money on a course.
> (A standard labourer would be paid about 4 US$ per
> day, or 120$ per month). What's more, those (very)
> rich, if they are interested in permaculture, seem
> above all to get settled in the countryside paying
> peanuts to some poor locals to work in their nice
> permaculture garden while they sunbathe, living of the
> fruit of earlier exploitation of some other poor
> locals. Which doesn't help anybody or resolve any
> problem in the end. The people and communities in
> Mexico who really need help from permaculture will
> never be able to pay this kind of money. They already
> have the greatest difficulty getting their hands on a
> piece of land as it is (a lot of them go to the USA,
> working as illegals, to be able to buy some land).
>
> So we were wondering what's the reason for these high
> prices... Squeezing money out of rich people (always a
> good idea of course) to help distribute permaculture
> maybe - but this seems a bit absurd: permaculture (or
> rather, the planet) doesn't need more money, it needs
> more permaculturists, it seems to us, the more the
> better. Or does it cost that much to organize a
> course? But if we imagine a course where 15 students
> participate, that would be 15 times 600 to 1,400 US$,
> or 9,000 to 21,000 US$, which seems (much) more than
> necessary.
>
> We see only the theoretical side of all this, of
> course, never having organized this kind of courses
> etc., so we had hoped that some people on this list
> would be willing to say something about this, clarify
> a bit, show another point of view maybe... Or start
> organizing dirt-cheap courses for the poor :-))
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bart
>
> =====
> "There is not much to be done against them, but everything without them."
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> La mejor conexión a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. 
> http://net.yahoo.com.mx
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:40:35 -0700
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
> Subject: [permaculture] [Fwd: [permacultureinfo] Permaculture.info
>         Website]
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <4140A3A3.5040707@intrex.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [permacultureinfo] Permaculture.info Website
> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 00:48:16 -0700
> From: Bear K <bear@ursine-design.com>
> To: permacultureinfo@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Glad to see permaculture.info online.
>
> Last September permaculturists and permaculture guilds around the San
> Francisco Bay Area had a convergence to try to start getting the guilds
> more organized, and to network. I was put in charge of the web and tech
> side of things. After searching through nearly all the opensource CMS
> systems available out there I found Plone and decided to use it to
> implement the website. It is a very powerful and flexible CMS system. I
> was also involved in the early discussions on permaculture@ibiblio
> regarding the wiki and suggested OpenPermaculture which is what I've
> named the site.
>
> I've been steadily working on it, though I've been busy with many
> things, and have been hesitant to announce it to the wider permaculture
> audience until it was as together as I'd like to see it.
>
> There is still much to do, but OpenPermaculture.com is now online and
> open to subscription.
>
> The main feature waiting to be implemented on the site is a "group"
> system that allows group (or guild) members to publish and review
> content, and send members email updates on groups they are subscribed
> to. I'm working on it...
>
> I'd be interested to find ways to collaborate on these projects.
>
> Cheers,
> Bear Kaufmann
> OpenPermaculture.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> permacultureinfo mailing list
> permacultureinfo@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permacultureinfo
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:28:26 -0500
> From: "Carrie Shepard" <outlikeelijah@gbronline.com>
> Subject: RE: [permaculture] hello, and a question about PCD course
>         prices
> To: <neotern-1@yahoo.com>,      "'permaculture'"
>         <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <1094743732_1947@GBRonline.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Bart,
>
> I am new to the list also and will briefly introduce myself before
> responding to your observations.
>
> I'm 37, married to a very precious spouse 11+ yrs, home schooling mom to 3
> children on earth (one special needs daughter we were privileged to care for
> 6 yrs), and budding permaculturist.  We are blessed to have 2.4 acres, on
> which I have a small orchard (peaches, pears, apples, cherry bushes, and
> some young plums), Nubian milk goats, Rhode island red chickens, some
> pigeons, a bunny cottage (angoras for fiber along with some new Zealand),
> and 2 veggie gardens (an area the equivalent of 6 three foot by 40 foot
> rows).
>
>  My interests in being a good steward and seeing the Creator's handiwork led
> me to permaculture and my health needs keep spurring me on.  I've been very
> very sick from numerous modern day problems (SAD diet and too many
> antibiotics, allergies, Candida, TMJ surgeries, thyroid, stress) and have
> recovered a quality of life through organic gardening, getting milk goats
> for fresh raw milk, raising my own chickens and ducks for eggs and meat, and
> learning to cook from scratch following Nourishing Traditions and now
> Extending the Table (many traditional recipes from around the world also
> from scratch with whole ingredients).
>
> My life situation is one where also I find the courses out of my price range
> and outside of my life situation.  This doesn't stop me from reading,
> emailing questions to mentors, and learning from applying what I can as I
> go.   You don't have to have a degree or be certified by any course to begin
> where you are with what you have around you.   At one point it hit me that
> while I thought I was researching organic gardening, I was actually learning
> about rebuilding community.  Let me share how this happened.
>
> I mentioned to some of my friends that I was placing an order for some
> chicks from the hatchery last fall and that I wanted more laying hens and
> the extras would be butchered to go in the freezer for healthy safe meat.
> Many of the women were very excited about this and wanted to not only buy
> some of the chickens but be taught how to butcher them so they can in turn
> feed their own families healthier foods.  I ended up teaching 4 women, 1
> husband, and 3 kids how to efficiently butcher their own home raised
> chickens from start to finish.  They all got some biology lessons also as we
> identified internal organs as we went.  I think this sort of dissection can
> be counted as part of high school biology in most states (good for those who
> home school to know).
>
> It took me 4 yrs of owning chickens for laying hens to get up the courage to
> do this project of growing them for butchering.  I got over my Bambi complex
> when I found myself once again physically very sick and found that the root
> of most of my health issues stemmed from overuse of antibiotics throughout
> my entire childhood and some long-term undiagnosed food allergies.
> Commercial meats contain trace residues of antibiotics enough to send me
> into shock -- I spent last memorial day holiday in the ER room getting IV
> drugs to save my life after eating a typical American barbecue meal (I
> suspect pork was the culprit, but there's no sure way to tell other than
> antibiotics are the only known cause of me going into hives and then shock
> within hours).  My blood sugar can't tolerate a vegetarian diet (been there
> done that and got sicker with the Candida) and so my only way to be sure of
> healthy foods is to raise them myself.  I've found a lot of health recovery
> from following a modified blood type diet, nutritional supplements and
> permaculture activities.
>
> The exercise alone in establishing permanent raised beds (I do some double
> digging), hauling in animal manures off the 'farm', and building fences and
> small structures for the animals has been very healing to me.  Tending the
> animals daily was a chore and a job in the early days when I didn't feel so
> well, but now I love to care for them and be with them watching their
> behaviors with enjoyment.  I'm slowly learning animal husbandry and working
> towards heritage breeds that I feel good about contributing to saving for
> genetic diversity.
>
> My next goals are to learn more about seed saving and fine tune the garden
> crops (and recipes to use them in)I can grow year round.  I'm fond of
> burgundy okra and sweet potatoes, mangels (both the yellow and the big ones
> for livestock feed), lettuces, kohlrabi, etc... And want to keep better
> records of what grows well here so I can better share with those around me.
>
> Sorry for being so long winded,
> Carrie
> In Northeastern OK
>
> -
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
> End of permaculture Digest, Vol 20, Issue 12
> ********************************************