permaculture

["Cochran, Jason" <jcochran@pa.peacecorps.gov>]

Yes permaculture is being widely practiced in Cuba with some good success in
urban agriculture- I attended a seminar given by 3 Cubans on permaculutre
(permacultura..) and urban gardens in Panama City, Panama last year and I
was impressed with their knowledge and they had all the books, contacts and
how to become a permaculturist. If given time I can come up with their
contacts if you would like to email me personally...
Sincerely yours, Jason Cochran


-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org]
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 10:29 AM
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 20, Issue 12


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Today's Topics:

   1. Permaculture in Cuba  (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
   2. Re: making dyes with vegetable matter/leaves, roots,      flowers
      (Mike Barnett)
   3. larry's arrival time (L.SantoyoDesigns)
   4. Mea Culpa (L.SantoyoDesigns)
   5. Re: Tibet (Robyn Francis)
   6. Re: Upcoming California Bay Area Courses and  Events
      (Selwyn Polit)
   7. PC classes (McFarlandAIA@aol.com)
   8. hello, and a question about PCD course prices
      (neotern-1@yahoo.com)
   9. [Fwd: [permacultureinfo] Permaculture.info Website]
      (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
  10. RE: hello, and a question about PCD course prices (Carrie Shepard)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 12:47:18 -0700
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture in Cuba 
To: 'permaculture' <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <413F61C6.1030101@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed


Is permaculture (per se) being practiced and taught in Cuba?
Are there any online resources on this topic?

What would happen if Cuba became the 54th US state? Would the
multinationals, i.e. Monsanto, ADM, Cargill
and others move in, shove aside all existing Cuban organic farming,
vermicomposting, PC and other natural technologies beyone value?

There must be a way for the Cuban people to keep what they have yet be free
of the yoke of communism and domination by multinational
ag conglomerates and transnational trade agreements like NAFTA.

Is there a PC-flavored democratic solution to solve Cuba's economic and
development problems. I don't think it is Cuba's destiny to become
a mid-Carribean whorehouse as some have implied.

Comments?

-- 
L.F.London
lfl@intrex.net
http://market-farming.com
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:47:19 -0600
From: "Mike Barnett" <dreadlox@cwjamaica.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] making dyes with vegetable matter/leaves,
        roots,  flowers
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <02d801c495d4$45b60a60$ee8cfea9@Mikey>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

I have found many references if you do a Yahoo or google search.
I was once looking for references on how to dye straw naturally.

I grow Turmeric. It is a very bright yellow, and stains cloth easily. You
could try cooking the cloth in curry powder if you cannot get 'pure'
turmeric powder.
The berries of spinach (malabar) stains a purple tone too.


Those are 2 that come to mind...

Mike
JAMAICA

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephanie Caroline Chappell" <schappel@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:36 PM
Subject: [permaculture] making dyes with vegetable matter/leaves,
roots,flowers


Hello,
As I am new to this list serv, I would like to thank you all people
for posting and sharing your experiences on line.

I would like to dye fabric with the children. Does anybody out there
have any hands-experiences to share: Vibrant colors, what works well,
what mordant to use...

Also does anybody have any insight on how to make paints with plants?

Thank you for any help you might be able to contribute.

En Paix,
Stephanie.
_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 14:08:44 -0700
From: "L.SantoyoDesigns" <santoyo@earthflow.com>
Subject: [permaculture] larry's arrival time
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <a05210604bd652433580e@[64.4.131.42]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Hi Toby,

I believe Larry will still be calling you before Fri (we're just 
recovering from Sierra's wedding Sunday and now we're working on 
Eli's start at college on Sat., in-between our camping status at the 
new zone), but I wanted to let you know that he will be arriving by 
bus to the Greyhound station in San Jose, at 1pm Friday.

(I'll be driving up Sat evening, so we will be able to take you to 
the airport on Sunday).

Looking forward to seeing you again,

Kathryn


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 14:27:14 -0700
From: "L.SantoyoDesigns" <santoyo@earthflow.com>
Subject: [permaculture] Mea Culpa
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <a05210607bd652939866e@[64.4.131.42]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Wow. Forgive me for that accidental posting.

Kathryn Santoyo









>Hi Toby,
>
>I believe Larry will still be calling you before Fri (we're just 
>recovering from Sierra's wedding Sunday and now we're working on 
>Eli's start at college on Sat., in-between our camping status at the 
>new zone), but I wanted to let you know that he will be arriving by 
>bus to the Greyhound station in San Jose, at 1pm Friday.
>
>(I'll be driving up Sat evening, so we will be able to take you to 
>the airport on Sunday).
>
>Looking forward to seeing you again,
>
>Kathryn
>_______________________________________________
>permaculture mailing list
>permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 07:45:43 +1000
From: Robyn Francis <erda@nor.com.au>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Tibet
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <BD646927.2FCE%erda@nor.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Also check out Permaculture International's web site - has an article about
a permaculture course conducted with the Tibetan Government in Exile.
 www.permacultureinternational.org

Robyn



On 7/9/04 5:04 PM, "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net> wrote:

> 
> A few links for those interested in Tibet and campaigns on behalf of
Tibetans
> still in their homeland and in exile:
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -------------------------------------
> 
> Tibetan Flag pix for website logos to go with Tibet links
> 
http://images.google.com/images?q=tibflag.gif&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Sea
rc>
h
> 
> Code-ready for insertion in your website:
> 
> <br><a href="http://www.tibet.com/index.html";>The Government of Tibet In
> Exile</a>
> <br><a href="http://www.freetibet.org/";>Free Tibet Campaign</a>
> <br><a href="http://www.tibetinfo.net/";>Tibet Information Network</a>
> <br><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3625588.stm";>BBC News
on
> Chinese intrusion into Tibet 9/6/2004</a>
> 
> LL



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 17:29:31 -0500
From: Selwyn Polit <selwyn@austintx.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Upcoming California Bay Area Courses and
        Events
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040908172843.02d662f0@mail.austintx.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Can you add ours in Austin, TX USA?  The flyer is attached.


>Here's a list of upcoming California Bay Area (and beyond) Permaculture 
>Courses and Gatherings.
>
>http://urbanpermacultureguild.org/pcttOSInfosheetOS2004.html
>
>Peace
>~Kat
>
>_______________________________________________
>permaculture mailing list
>permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>

__________
Selwyn Polit
(512)926-7876
<mailto:selwyn@austintx.com>selwyn@austintx.com







------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:39:14 EDT
From: McFarlandAIA@aol.com
Subject: [permaculture] PC classes
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <129.4b0f29e8.2e710032@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Yes,

And also classes given in Houston, Texas. We have a Designer's Certification

Series starting tomorrow, Sept. 8. We teach a "working man's" class in 3 
sections which can be taken in any sequence.

Check www.urbanharvest.org and hit the Permaculture key for a complete class

listing. Our prices are very reasonable.

Shawn McFarland, AIA, LEED
Permaculture Guild of Houston


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:47:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: <neotern-1@yahoo.com>
Subject: [permaculture] hello, and a question about PCD course prices
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <20040909124721.86733.qmail@web61203.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Hello,

I'm new on the list, so maybe it's a good idea to
start of with a brief introduction...

I'm a 31 year old Belgian male, ex-industrial engineer
(only the diploma, never worked it), ex-artist (short
career stopped because of no sense), ex-cultural
installer (more fun than art, see
http://home.pi.be/~bv313716/cultinst/index2.htm), and
now fresh and very motivated permaculturist-to-be,
still without land but that should change soon. My
wife Yuriria (or Yuri), who is Mexican, and I plan to
move to the Mexican countryside early next year and
take care of a piece of mother earth over there. Until
then we're living in Brussels, Belgium.

I have a question concerning the Permaculture Designer
Courses, but before that, I have to say that getting
in touch with permaculture (through Bill Mollison's
"Permaculture Designer's Manual", and afterwards by
contacting Mr. Cardon in Mouscron, Belgium, who has a
magnificent permaculture garden since 30 years) really
changed our perspective on a lot of things, opened our
eyes, and a door to a meaningful future, so nothing
than the biggest of praise and thankfulness to
permaculture and permaculture activists around the
globe.

One thing about permaculture is bugging us a bit,
however. I hope not to offend anybody on this list
saying this, but we feel that the prices for the
Permaculture Designer Course are somewhat exorbitant,
and in fact, are an obstacle for the spread of
permaculture around the globe - and the globe really
needs permaculture. 
We see prices ranging from 600 US$ (in Oaxaca, Mexico)
to over 1,400US$ for 72-hours or 15-day courses
(granted, food and stay included, but still...), and
are a bit puzzled. We ask ourselves who can afford
this. If we look at this from a Mexican point of vue
for instance, no-one in Mexico but the (very) rich
could afford to spend this kind of money on a course.
(A standard labourer would be paid about 4 US$ per
day, or 120$ per month). What's more, those (very)
rich, if they are interested in permaculture, seem
above all to get settled in the countryside paying
peanuts to some poor locals to work in their nice
permaculture garden while they sunbathe, living of the
fruit of earlier exploitation of some other poor
locals. Which doesn't help anybody or resolve any
problem in the end. The people and communities in
Mexico who really need help from permaculture will
never be able to pay this kind of money. They already
have the greatest difficulty getting their hands on a
piece of land as it is (a lot of them go to the USA,
working as illegals, to be able to buy some land).

So we were wondering what's the reason for these high
prices... Squeezing money out of rich people (always a
good idea of course) to help distribute permaculture
maybe - but this seems a bit absurd: permaculture (or
rather, the planet) doesn't need more money, it needs
more permaculturists, it seems to us, the more the
better. Or does it cost that much to organize a
course? But if we imagine a course where 15 students
participate, that would be 15 times 600 to 1,400 US$,
or 9,000 to 21,000 US$, which seems (much) more than
necessary.

We see only the theoretical side of all this, of
course, never having organized this kind of courses
etc., so we had hoped that some people on this list
would be willing to say something about this, clarify
a bit, show another point of view maybe... Or start
organizing dirt-cheap courses for the poor :-))

Best regards,

Bart


=====
"There is not much to be done against them, but everything without them."

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
La mejor conexión a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes.
http://net.yahoo.com.mx


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:40:35 -0700
From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>
Subject: [permaculture] [Fwd: [permacultureinfo] Permaculture.info
        Website]
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <4140A3A3.5040707@intrex.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [permacultureinfo] Permaculture.info Website
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 00:48:16 -0700
From: Bear K <bear@ursine-design.com>
To: permacultureinfo@lists.ibiblio.org

Hi Everyone,

Glad to see permaculture.info online.

Last September permaculturists and permaculture guilds around the San
Francisco Bay Area had a convergence to try to start getting the guilds
more organized, and to network. I was put in charge of the web and tech
side of things. After searching through nearly all the opensource CMS
systems available out there I found Plone and decided to use it to
implement the website. It is a very powerful and flexible CMS system. I
was also involved in the early discussions on permaculture@ibiblio
regarding the wiki and suggested OpenPermaculture which is what I've
named the site.

I've been steadily working on it, though I've been busy with many
things, and have been hesitant to announce it to the wider permaculture
audience until it was as together as I'd like to see it.

There is still much to do, but OpenPermaculture.com is now online and
open to subscription.

The main feature waiting to be implemented on the site is a "group"
system that allows group (or guild) members to publish and review
content, and send members email updates on groups they are subscribed
to. I'm working on it...

I'd be interested to find ways to collaborate on these projects.

Cheers,
Bear Kaufmann
OpenPermaculture.com

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permacultureinfo mailing list
permacultureinfo@lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permacultureinfo



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:28:26 -0500
From: "Carrie Shepard" <outlikeelijah@gbronline.com>
Subject: RE: [permaculture] hello, and a question about PCD course
        prices
To: <neotern-1@yahoo.com>,      "'permaculture'"
        <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <1094743732_1947@GBRonline.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Dear Bart,

I am new to the list also and will briefly introduce myself before
responding to your observations.

I'm 37, married to a very precious spouse 11+ yrs, home schooling mom to 3
children on earth (one special needs daughter we were privileged to care for
6 yrs), and budding permaculturist.  We are blessed to have 2.4 acres, on
which I have a small orchard (peaches, pears, apples, cherry bushes, and
some young plums), Nubian milk goats, Rhode island red chickens, some
pigeons, a bunny cottage (angoras for fiber along with some new Zealand),
and 2 veggie gardens (an area the equivalent of 6 three foot by 40 foot
rows).

 My interests in being a good steward and seeing the Creator's handiwork led
me to permaculture and my health needs keep spurring me on.  I've been very
very sick from numerous modern day problems (SAD diet and too many
antibiotics, allergies, Candida, TMJ surgeries, thyroid, stress) and have
recovered a quality of life through organic gardening, getting milk goats
for fresh raw milk, raising my own chickens and ducks for eggs and meat, and
learning to cook from scratch following Nourishing Traditions and now
Extending the Table (many traditional recipes from around the world also
from scratch with whole ingredients).

My life situation is one where also I find the courses out of my price range
and outside of my life situation.  This doesn't stop me from reading,
emailing questions to mentors, and learning from applying what I can as I
go.   You don't have to have a degree or be certified by any course to begin
where you are with what you have around you.   At one point it hit me that
while I thought I was researching organic gardening, I was actually learning
about rebuilding community.  Let me share how this happened.

I mentioned to some of my friends that I was placing an order for some
chicks from the hatchery last fall and that I wanted more laying hens and
the extras would be butchered to go in the freezer for healthy safe meat.
Many of the women were very excited about this and wanted to not only buy
some of the chickens but be taught how to butcher them so they can in turn
feed their own families healthier foods.  I ended up teaching 4 women, 1
husband, and 3 kids how to efficiently butcher their own home raised
chickens from start to finish.  They all got some biology lessons also as we
identified internal organs as we went.  I think this sort of dissection can
be counted as part of high school biology in most states (good for those who
home school to know).

It took me 4 yrs of owning chickens for laying hens to get up the courage to
do this project of growing them for butchering.  I got over my Bambi complex
when I found myself once again physically very sick and found that the root
of most of my health issues stemmed from overuse of antibiotics throughout
my entire childhood and some long-term undiagnosed food allergies.
Commercial meats contain trace residues of antibiotics enough to send me
into shock -- I spent last memorial day holiday in the ER room getting IV
drugs to save my life after eating a typical American barbecue meal (I
suspect pork was the culprit, but there's no sure way to tell other than
antibiotics are the only known cause of me going into hives and then shock
within hours).  My blood sugar can't tolerate a vegetarian diet (been there
done that and got sicker with the Candida) and so my only way to be sure of
healthy foods is to raise them myself.  I've found a lot of health recovery
from following a modified blood type diet, nutritional supplements and
permaculture activities.

The exercise alone in establishing permanent raised beds (I do some double
digging), hauling in animal manures off the 'farm', and building fences and
small structures for the animals has been very healing to me.  Tending the
animals daily was a chore and a job in the early days when I didn't feel so
well, but now I love to care for them and be with them watching their
behaviors with enjoyment.  I'm slowly learning animal husbandry and working
towards heritage breeds that I feel good about contributing to saving for
genetic diversity.

My next goals are to learn more about seed saving and fine tune the garden
crops (and recipes to use them in)I can grow year round.  I'm fond of
burgundy okra and sweet potatoes, mangels (both the yellow and the big ones
for livestock feed), lettuces, kohlrabi, etc... And want to keep better
records of what grows well here so I can better share with those around me.

Sorry for being so long winded,
Carrie
In Northeastern OK

-




------------------------------

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End of permaculture Digest, Vol 20, Issue 12
********************************************