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  • From: "Robert Waldrop" <rmwj@soonernet.com>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Where is the Focus on Energy
  • Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:14:46 -0500

-----Original Message-----
From: georg parlow <georg@websuxxess.com>
>? if you do this from the inside, it will attract moisture will grow
fungi
>imperfecti will wreck your health... always insulate on the outside
of
>walls, if this cannot be done, you need to insulate watertight,

What I am thinking of is not permanent insulation, but temporary
insulation for poor people who are unable to heat their entire
dwellings. Would this be a problem with short terms situations, e.g.
the coldest 2 months of the year?

>keep growing
>and keep insulating...

Always. Given our heating and cooling situations, hehehe, we are very
interested in insulation. Keeping cool in August is as much of an
issue for us as keeping warm in January. I haven't noticed any
problems with cold and my computer, but I have noticed a problem with
heat and generally in the summer I don't use the computer in the late
afternoon/early evening.

Most of the "experts" we have talked to have said that this amount of
insulation (r 50) is not "cost effective" for our typical heating
days. I had an extensive email conversation with the executive
director of the cellulose insulation industry association. he kept
trying to talk me out of it, but finally admitted that even though not
"cost effective" (by his definition), we would get additional
insulating value out of the extra insulation.

My problem with "cost effective" is that this is really "in the eyes
of the beholder". I want (actually, need) to be able to live on as
little income as possible (it's a significant aspect of my "retirement
strategy"). So I would prefer to spend more money up front for
passive measures that will reduce operating costs (and thus the
environmental impact) of the dwelling over the rest of its useful life
(long may it live, our house turns 75 next year!). We are also doing
a lot of the work ourselves, so that saves money too. Our primary
holdup is that we need to get the house rewired (the wiring dates from
1929), and that needs to be done before we do the insulating project.
and that's not something we can do ourselves, so first we spend $4,000
for an electrician, who by law has to install capacity for more
electricity than we will ever need, thus increasing our cost), and
then we do the insulation ourselves. We are already building the new
interior frame, as we save a bit on the electrical job by having the
wires and plugs and switches installed to the new interior walls.

"cost effective" is also a function of the price of energy, and as the
energy decline sets in, that price is going to increase, in time
radically increase. We have natural gas for the stove and hot water,
but we are not going to use natural gas for any heating. We hope we
get some significant heat gain from the south facing sunspace, and do
intend top reinstall the wood stove, but we hope to use the wood stove
only during the coldest parts of the winter. Oklahoma has a variable
winter climate, but we seem to be having increasing spells of very
cold weather, accompanied by more snow and ice than we are used to.
so i'm thinking our winters are getting worse and that should be
planned for.

For this particular place, if I was starting from a bare lot and new
construction, I think the only choice would be some kind of
underground or earth sheltered housing, in part because of the riotous
nature of our spring weather -- Oklahoma City is the bullseye of
Tornado Alley, I think our average is at least one tornado in the city
limits every year for the 100 or so years of records, so earth
sheltered housing makes a lot of sense. But the earth sheltering
would be particularly important during the heat of the summer.

ours is a retrofit however, and we hope it will turn out to be an
example of what can be done. We do have a cellar on our plans, but it
is towards the end of the master plan, besides shelter from storms, we
need a place to age beer and wine and keep home processed jams, root
vegetables, fermented pickles, saurkraut, etc..

Robert Waldrop, okc






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