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  • From: "jamie" <jamie@tiscali.fr>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: RE: [permaculture] Where is the Focus on Energy
  • Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:16:11 -0000

Hello everyone, it may seem a banal point but energy is not simply about
house heating/cooling or transportation, the discussions we have on this
list are very definitely concentrated on the food energy section of the
total energy cycle, but except for the matter of time oil/gas/coal/firewood
are/were all plants.

Is this point worth making? Perhaps only in allowing us to think yet further
in an holistic manner (ie that the sun is the ultimate source of all energy
and that we can use up all of its stored forms or learn to make better use
of our daily dose - I think it's been quoted on this list previously that
we're using up stored forms of solar energy something like 7 times faster
than they can be replaced). Georg's mention of PAHS (Passive Annual Heat
Storage) articulates this thinking, the use of summer heat and winter cold
to provide summer coolth and winter warmth would be a way of modulating
short term this energy system (I think the guys name is John Hait): there's
a good explanation of the system here http://www.midcoast.com/~bo/PAHS1.html

Jamie

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of georg parlow
Sent: mardi 12 août 2003 18:51
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Where is the Focus on Energy


> What I am thinking of is not permanent insulation, but temporary
> insulation for poor people who are unable to heat their entire
> dwellings. Would this be a problem with short terms situations, e.g.
> the coldest 2 months of the year?

yep - put a matress against a badly insulated (=cold) wall in a heated room
with mammals in it, and the thing will be soaking wet within days. of
course, the porblem decreases with the temperature in the room - more
heating, more watercollection. so if the people just barely heat enough to
make it through, it might be less of a problem. but it should still be
checked regualrely, and dried up if necessary.


> Keeping cool in August is as much of an
> issue for us as keeping warm in January.

yea, i am sure glad that i now live in a house that stays nice and cool,
provided i keep everything shut between 8am-8pm - and of course have
everything open the rest of the time. well, "nice and cool" might be
relative - it is still warm enough to move about without an inch of
clothing, and i am usually more on the warm side. we are currently
experiencing a new record high in central europe - no rain for months,
beyond 30 deg celsius for more than 30 days in a row, record highs beyond
40...


> "cost effective" is also a function of the price of energy, and as the

yea, i thought the same thing when you explained, that you use the electric
heater for "cost reasons"


> underground or earth sheltered housing, in part because of the riotous

there is a beautiful design around, incorporating a annual heat storage with
quite simple means - something like a looong air pipe winding in - cant
remember the name of the guy...

keep it going
georg

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