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  • From: "Graham Burnett" <gb0063551@cableinet.co.uk>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: Fw: [PermacultureUK] - NOT SEEING THE WOOD FROM THE TREES
  • Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 15:29:55 -0000


Forwarded from Mark Fisher to UK Permaculture list-

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Fisher <Mark.Fisher@care4free.net>
To: <gb0063551@cableinet.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 2:50 PM
Subject: [PermacultureUK] - NOT SEEING THE WOOD FROM THE TREES


> ---------------------
> PermacultureUK - The views expressed on this list are not necessarily
> those of the Permaculture Assoc. (Britain)
> http://www.permaculture.org.uk
> ---------------------
> Hallo all
>
> I've been able to read in full Greg Williams complaints about Permaculture
> in his
book review in Whole Earth (Winter 2001) and Toby Hemenway's response
published
next to it. Thank goodness for a Borders bookstore in Leeds (part of an
American
chain). I would be less than honest if I didn't say it started out as a bit
of a
nervous read. However, I'm glad I sought it out as it cleared up a few things
for
me.
>
> It would be easy to shrug off Williams complaints about yields in
> Permaculture
systems as sour grapes. I suspect he sees himself as a significant mentor to
people
who seek certain aspects of self-reliance. His HortIdeas newsletter is
probably
fallen on for tips on how to deal with the mundane such as slugs, much as
organic
gardeners in the UK revere the simplistic emissions of the likes of HDRA or
Bob
Flowerdew. The recipients aren't necessarily encouraged to think for
themselves, to
see how their actions fit into a bigger picture, or even develop their own
ideas.
Its the difference between having your information increased or having your
insights deepened. Is Toby's book a challenge to do the latter (Toby says his
book
is about ecological gardening)? Isn't Permaculture?
>
> I would be unfair if I accused Williams of not thinking himself. He is
> obviously
grappling with his own demons and with his reluctance (resistance) to
accommodate
permacultural thinking with his own world view. Ok - I can empathise with
that.
What I can't do is go back to his anthropocentric view that nature's yields
should
be based primarily on their success in serving humankind. His statement that
successional wooded landscapes would eventually only produce food for deers -
along
with his views on the merits of "meadow" gardening - show a callous disregard
for
the multiple yields that are supportive of ALL earth users. It is the key to
why
his world view is destined to be overtaken. And it is of the same mentality
of the
people who persecute badgers, foxes and red kites (only just being
reintroduced)
because they fear any slight diminution in agricultural productivity.
>
> What was disturbing was the personalisation of the issues in both pieces
> around
the character of Bill Mollison, and it is inevitably thus. I am never happy
raising
individuals on pedestals (but still have a very soft spot for the late Geoff
Hamilton). Permaculture always runs a risk from this and it is not helpful
that
there are continuing rumbles that Mollison is becoming somewhat heavy handed
(Toby
says he was threatened with a copyright suit over the use of Permaculture in
his
book title). This throws the future development of Permaculture into
discussion for
me.
>
> I am struck by the example of Linux, the open access computer operating
> system
that gains strength by its users modifying and developing it, and freely
distributing the revisions - all with the blessing of its originator. I am
also
highly delighted when I find diverse sources that are supportive or
confirmatory of
things that I am interested in - and this is particularly so of my interest in
Permaculture. Mollison is not ungenerous of the influences on himself, citing
a
body of references in such of his books as the designers manual (12 years out
of
date now). But we need to keep doing this, to seek out the ideas and
philosophies
that build on Permaculture and signal its worth. And I don't want to have to
wait
until Mollison dies before we get on with this.
>
> Here are two examples, not necessarily the greatest: - "Rather than argue
> about
where to put our wastes, who will pay for it, and how long it will be before
toxins
leak into the groundwater, we should be trying to design systems that are
elegantly
imitative of climax ecosystems found in nature" from The Ecology of Commerce:
A
Declaration of Sustainability by Paul Hawken, Harper & Row, 1993
>
> -"we are living in a time when both the earth and the human species seem to
> be
crying out for a radical readjustment in the scale of our political thought.
Is it
possible that in this sense the personal and the planetary are pointing the
way
towards some new basis for sustainable and emotional life, a society of good
environmental citizenship that can ally the intimately emotional and the
vastly
biospheric?" from Ecopsychology: Restoring the Earth, Healing the Mind by
Theodore
Roszak, Sierra Club Books, 1995
>
> And, in addition, I sat through a talk recently by Chris Baines that rested
> on
the thesis that planting more trees on agricultural land would increase water
infiltration and thus manage better the heavy rains and floods of the previous
autumn. This is not rocket science to a permaculturist! Chris didn't have
much to
say about agriculture, but I bet he gets a better reception for his ideas even
though they don't appear to have a developed framework behind them.
>
> So here is our challenge - what are we to make of the future of
> Permaculture?
>
> Mark Fisher (with a generous nod to Jamie "Futures" Saunders)
>
> --- PermacultureUK
> You are subscribed to PermacultureUK at permaculture.uk@ntlworld.com
>





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