Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

permaculture - Re: language, meaning and nature

permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: permaculture

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Michael Dean <mikedean.com@altavista.com>
  • To: permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu
  • Subject: Re: language, meaning and nature
  • Date: 29 Nov 2001 03:07:09 -0800


Thanks very much Bob. Your e mail was very interesting and if you ever feel
the urge to write some more I would for one be very interested in reading it.

I think that we have a great deal to learn from other cultures. Can you
imagine the accumalated wealth of ideas and knowledge that has been gained
over 40,000 years? Cultures and languages are disappearing faster than at any
time in history and I think that we have to try to record what we can before
it is gone forever.

It must be facinating to try to see the world through the eyes of the
Aborigine.

All the best Mike.

On Wed, 28 November 2001, BOb Howard wrote:

>
>
>
> Michael Dean wrote:
>
> > Dear Bob,
> >
> > Your reply is very very interesting. These sorts of discussions really
> > get you thinking, and it is one of life's pleasures that we are able to
> > think in these various terms.
> >
> > What really interests me is the difference in the European and the
> > Aboriginal attitudes. You seem to be closely aquainted with the
> > Pitjantjatjara Aboriginies
> > who have a different notion of the self to that of the European and these
> > differences manifest themselves in their attitudes to exchange,
> > fairness, reciprocity and selfishness.
> >
> > Please tell me more! The Aborigine has been in Australia for about 40,000
> > years and has influenced the landscape extensively. Are you able to
> > explain how he interprets the world and in what ways this is different
> > from that of the Europeans?
> >
> > Mike Dean
> >
>
> I don't want to overstate my acquaintance with Aboriginal people - I only
> have worked briefly with Pitjantjatjara people although I have spent many
> years (30) working with Aboriginal people in more urban environments. But
> the persistence of
> notions of fairness, generosity and mutual obligation even within groups
> whose society has been subject to genocidal attack is a measure of their
> heroic courage in the face of cruel adversity.
>
> Noongar people in Albany who I have lived and worked with for the last 10
> odd years constantly challenge me with their generosity. The idea of asking
> for something ( a coat, the shirt of one's back, a lift somewhere etc.) is
> usually
> misinterpreted by wadjilas (whitefellas) as importunate begging yet amongst
> Noongar people the request is more often than not acceded to. The giver in
> fulfilling the request accepts a social obligation to an 'uncle' or 'aunty'
> or 'brother' or
> 'sister'. To work 'successfully' with Aboriginal people to my mind involves
> being willing to step beyond the idea of doing a job and to treat people as
> members of one's extended family.
>
> Now sometimes these cultural obligations have adverse consequences -
> selfishness is not unknown amongst Aboriginal people and the cultural
> sanctions against selfishness have been considerably weakened by
> capitalism's adulation of what was once
> regarded as a sin. Similarly alcohol and jealousy of individual
> achievements have often despairing effects on the communities cohesion.
>
> From a traditional point of view, everybody and everything is related.
> Initially the world is divided into a shade side and a sun side. In Noongar
> these are known as Manichmat and Wardangmat - the cockatoo and the crow
> sides. In other parts of
> Australia the eagle is used instead of the crow. The substitution in the
> south west is due to the presence of little corella's (white cockatoos) in
> large numbers often intermixed with crows. Manitch and Wardang carry other
> meanings - manitch
> means manager and was used as slang for policeman; wardang means watcher.
> The doer and the watcher. The owner and the manager of land or sacred
> sites. All land based ceremony takes place under the auspices of the owner
> of a site and it's
> manager.
>
> Critically one always takes one's wife or husband from the opposite moiety.
> One's children may inherit their moeity from either their father or their
> mother depending upon the local custom.
>
> Within this tao like division their can be further subdivisions. In the
> south Tondarup, Didaruk, and others that may alternate with generations or
> be inherited directly. A little thought reveals that the owner and the
> manager then manifest as
> one's mother's brother and as oneself.
>
> In the desert, this scheme is elaborated into the 8 'skin' (or section)
> system used amongst the Pitjantjatjara, Pintubi, Walpiri and others or the
> six skins system of the Nganatjara. These elaborations have spread in
> recent years and been
> adopted by tribes who previously had 4 skin systems.
>
> Everyone who works in a desert community is given a skin name soon after
> arrival and fitted into the scheme. Old people will deal with Aboriginal
> strangers from other parts of the country by first enquiring as to their
> local skin and then after
> much discussion work out what the appropriate skin is within the local
> community.
>
> Once your skin is ascertained then one 1/8 of the people are your
> classificatory mothers and mother's brothers and sisters, 1/8th are your
> sisters and brothers, 1/8th are your potential spouses, 1/8th are your son
> in law or mother in-law who
> you should not speak to but regularly offer gifts and presents to.
>
> I'm really skimming the surface here but this is a taste of what's involved.
>
> There is an ongoing debate about whether Aboriginal culture/people are
> really like the rest of us or are really different. This debate is commonly
> heard in racist circles. IMHO the cultural differences between Aboriginal
> and European culture
> are profound and constantly downplayed because of the poor reflection that
> they cast upon the cultural habits of Europeans.
>
> But hey that's another story.
>
> Regards
>
> Bob Howard
>
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: mikedean.com@altavista.com
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu
> Get the list FAQ at:
> http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/documents/permaculture.faq


Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
http://www.shopping.altavista.com




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page