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  • From: Michael Dean <mikedean.com@altavista.com>
  • To: permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu
  • Subject: Re: Out of Control
  • Date: 22 Nov 2001 02:50:38 -0800



I think the reason we remember better through oral communication is that it
also contains the feelings and the wonder or circumstance when the
information is conveyed so that the memory is also connected with the
occasion, ie with smell, or time of year, or happinese. Reading books or the
internet does not convey these important associations and hence the
difficulty retaining the information. One way round the problem, partly, are
discussion groups or dealing with like minded people to reinforce useful
information.

Mike.

On Wed, 21 November 2001, Claude Genest wrote:

>
> Thi sthread reminds me of the George Carlin post a while back who made the
> wry and astute observation about our being awash in information, yet short
> on knowledge...
>
>
>
> > From: Toby Hemenway <hemenway@jeffnet.org>
> > Reply-To: "permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> > Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:57:38 -0800
> > To: "permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> > Subject: Re: Out of Control
> >
> > on 11/20/01 Lawrence F. London, Jr wrote:
> >
> >>> Mollison talks about similar themes in the
> >>> designer's manual when he discusses pattern and
> >>> tribal knowledge. If I can remember, he asks us
> >>> to consider first the inability of many
> >>> contemporary people to retain knowledge. And this
> >>
> >> I don't know how he can say something like this.
> >>
> > I think I see Sean's point: I've read a zillion books and gone to
> > thousands
> > of hours of school, but I don't remember 0.0001% of that information.
> > (Quick: who said "the map is not the territory?" Did a couple of you guess
> > Gregory Bateson or Stewart Brand? No, it was Alfred Korzybski; Bateson and
> > Brand just made it famous, a fact I just read yesterday [literally] and
> > will
> > forget in a few days. We can't keep that stuff straight.)
> >
> > But of fables, stories, and parables full of wisdom, and the tales from
> > wise
> > locals, I have retained a far, far greater percentage, and use that wisdom
> > every day (a stitch in time saves nine; red sky at night, sailor's
> > delight.
> > . . King Philip Climbed Over Five Great Stones. . . and on and on) Oral,
> > patterned learning is more efficiently retained by our meat computer and
> > in
> > our bodies.
> >>
> >>> often requiring specialized knowledge
> >>> just to access, let alone commit to memory.
> >
> >> That is a very inadequate and short-sighted view
> >> of electronic information collection, management and retreival.
> >
> > Again, I think the point is that electronic knowledge is available to
> > only a
> > tiny percentage of the world's (rich) people, while oral knowledge is
> > available to all.
> >
> > I used to read a lot about semantics. Some it it is dreadful, but much is
> > very thought provoking. For now I stick with less technical works on the
> > subject like David Abram's marvelous "Spell of the Sensuous."
> >
> > Toby
> > _____________________________________________
> > For a look at my new book on ecological gardening,
> > Gaia's Garden: A Guide to Home-Scale Permaculture, visit
> > http://www.chelseagreen.com/Garden/GaiasGarden.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
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