permaculture

["Robert Jensen" <robertscroft@hotmail.com>]

This whole debate turns on two issues:
1.   The need to respect an authors work, and
2.   The propogation of a brilliant set of ideas.

My thoughts on various comments are below:


> From: 1earth permaculture <permaculture1@start.com.au>
> Reply-To: "permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Subject: Re: What Bill says
> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:39:02 +1000
>
> From my reading of that spiel, the Manual is the curriculum of the
> Design Course, and that any other permaculture "curriculum must be by
> application to the author".
> > > has this been the practise in the past?

> Does that mean if we want to run a PDC course or even a short course
> on a particular aspect eg How To Build a Herb Spiral, we first must
> have it approved by Bill and his Institute?
>
> The two comments "nor can any group of people substantially alter or
> assert ownership of the text" and "people need to write their own
> curriculum and textbooks and not plagiarise my work" seem to be at
> odds.
> > >  I disagree, I think the two quotes are inclusive.


> My reading is that if we want to continue under the permaculture
> umbrella as designers and teachers we each have to create our own
> textbooks of curriculum, following the principles outlined in Bill's
> (and David's) books so as not to "substantially alter" the work, but
> not too closely as to be accused of plagiarism.  And then submit it to
> Bill for approval.
> > >   If you did design your own curriculum, why would you need to seek 
> > > approval for it?

> My greatest concern to Bill's trademarking "Permaculture Design
> Course" and "Permaculture" is that teachers and designers would have
> to pay royalties.
> > >  Perhaps this is the nub of many peoples concerns.   If a PDC teacher 
> > > has been copying Bill's work and distributing it to students, then surely 
> > > that would have breached copyright in the work.

Would it not be a better idea for a teacher to purchase the original PDC 
notes and books from Bill and sell it on with a markup?

> I suppose if these royalties went to an Institute that successfully
> administered the curriculum and PDC and higher degrees, then it would
> be a good investment. (?)  Such an Institute would, if it followed the
> principles laid down in the Manual, be democratic and open in its
> affairs.
> > >   An owner of a copyright does not need to be democratic.   In fact the 
> > > disposal of a property right is usually quite arbitrary and driven by 
> > > commercial reality, ie; the dreadful $$$$.   The fact that Permaculture 
> > > is a movement which can and does change peoples lives for the better does 
> > > not mean that the rights to the underlying intellectual property are 
> > > alientated from their rightful owner.   I note that there has been many 
> > > suggestions here that the underlying intellectual property originated 
> > > from others beside Bill Mollison.

> Permaculture is different things to different people.  This is one of
> the reasons why it is so successful and has spread so quickly. This is
> also why we are asked in our PDC to define the term.  It is also why
> the PDC courses needs to be administered a hell of a lot better than
> they are at present (to avoid the example of a one week PDC courses
> when it clearly says 72-hours duration, and the registration of cowboy
> PDC teachers and designers).
> > >   If teachers of the PDC agree that a common approach is required, then 
> > > it follows that somehow agreement needs to be reached on funding to allow 
> > > this to occur.   I would think that Royalties might well be the best 
> > > source of such funds.   Whilst also building on a quality product in the 
> > > PDC manuals from a single source.
>
> This whole situation also reminds me of the current state in the
> internet's growth, with companies like Yahoo initially giving it all
> away free until it grows to a critical mass, then start charging (for
> something that we all created together).  The internet is going
> through a massive attrition as companies fail and people adjust to the
> internet being capitalised and regulated.  History repeats, are there
> are a lot of similarities between the net and permaculture.
>
> > >   The internet is littered with business models that were not built on a 
> > > positive cash flow.   If you want something to endure, you'd better build 
> > > a solid base and negative cash flows certainly do not do that.

> Bill must be laughing now.  He reminds me of ol' Joh Bjelke Petersen
> coming out every so often to "feed the chooks" (Joh was an Australian
> politician suffering early dementia who was refering to himself giving
> press conferences - the media and public were his "chooks" or
> chickens).
>
> > >   I think it is bad form to draw such an analogy and I do not think 
> > > others appreciate such comments.

I do not know what Bill Mollison thinks of all the debate surrounding the 
whole issue of copyright, yet I would very much welcome his contribution on 
the subject as it might help others understand how to move forward in a more 
orderly manner.   It might also inject some respect into the debate.

> Marcus Webb
>
>
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