permaculture

["Myk Rushton" <permaculture@wave.co.nz>]

----- Original Message -----
Toby wrote after Myk wrote:

> >To be fair the only people who have referred to any spiritual/religious
> >connotations have been those who doubt the validity of zoning/zones as
> >understood by some -
>
> Au contrair, friend Myk. Let me pull a few quotes:

> from Graham:
> >to 'Zone 6'. . .  'here be dragons'. . .

> > Zone 6 is kind of the
> >COLLECTIVE subconsious, cultural mythologies, the dreaming, legends, folk
> >tales . . .

from Myk:
> > zone 6. As far as I recall he defined it as our imagination, inhabited
by the
> >mythical creatures such as dragons, elves, dwarfs, unicorns etc.

It appears that you have me there and I concede graciously :-). I can't
speak for others but it appears that the accepted understanding of spiritual
and mythical and mine are different. To me spiritual has religious
connotations whilst mythical does not.


> ...What I was trying to say was that
> our spiritual views are so deeply embedded that we don't recognize...

I agree with the above.

I also agree with Scott and Charles that this discussion has nothing to do
with changing Pc as described in the Design Manual or that the curriculum
should be updated. As a trained ecologist I describe myself as a Ecological
designer who uses ecology and permaculture as tools to create ecologically
sustainable/productive designs. I do not include the terms zones 00 or 6 in
my designs. On the other hand neither do I use terms such as niche,
stability, balance of nature, survival of the fittest and many other
misunderstood/superseded ecological terms/concepts that are used by many
practising permaculturalists.

Although I do discuss with 'permaculturalists' their head state or mental
thinking with regards to their application of permaculture in there lives
i.e. how do they walk their talk? and use the term zone 00 I use it to infer
that it is at centre of something. Perhaps I should describe it as their
mental threedimensional hypervolume of infinite probability which is at the
centre of all their actions! But I prefer zone 00 :-).


This has been an excellent discussion, even if it has been going on for 15
years, I'm glad the pioneers developed such fertile ground :-)

Going of topic

> I'd also like to know if the idea is original with Mollison or if he got
it
> somewhere else (wish he'd indicate that sort of thing!).

During a feedback circle following a description of zones 0-5 at an
introductory seminar (ran by Carl) one member of the circle pointed out that
the zoning was almost identical to that of a medieval village.

Myk
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