Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion of Walker Percy

[Ken Armstrong <armstron AT ohiou.edu>]

Question: Do you know something without knowing that you know?

Ken A

At 09:32 AM 3/25/2008, you wrote:
> List,
>
>  I've always wondered why, in this age old debate, more has not been made 
> of the degree of quantitative difference.
>
> Even without getting to the question of qualitative difference, one must 
> admit that the difference in quantity is huge--orders of magnitude. Apes 
> in the wild may have a few dozen symbols. Human symbols number in the 
> hundreds of thousands at least.
>
> The extent of the difference in quantity suggests, though certainly does 
> not prove,  a qualitative difference.
>
> I don't have Langer in front of me, but I recall one thing she wrote in 
> _New Key_--
> "Between the clearest animal call of love or warning or anger, and man's 
> least, trivial word, there lies a whole day of Creation--or in modern 
> phrase, a whole chapter of evolution." (NY: Mentor Books) p.83.
>
>   Robert
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Karey Perkins <karey1 AT charter.net>
> Date: Monday, March 24, 2008 6:48
> Subject: Re: [percy-l] Chimp is a challenge
> To: "'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion'" 
> <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>
> > Rhonda,
> >
> >
> >
> > Of course, Nikki knows more about what Walker said personally, but
> > in his
> > writings he always maintained that chimps and other animals could
> > communicate dyadically - but their sign language and other
> > communicationnever rose above the "sign" level to symbol.  He
> > seemed pretty adamant about
> > that, even though it was not written in stone in the general
> > field, as Nikki
> > says.  Interestingly, Susanne Langer, his mentor in symbol (of
> > sorts), felt
> > otherwise - that higher primates were capable of rudimentary
> > symbol, and
> > gives examples in her "Philosophy in a New Key."  For Walker it
> > seems to be
> > a qualitative difference; for Langer, it was quantitative.
> >
> >
> >
> > Karey
> >
> >
> >
> >  _____
> >
> > From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > [mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of RHONDA
> > MCDONNELLSent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:21 AM
> > To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Chimp is a challenge
> >
> >
> >
> > Nikki--
> >
> > Can you elaborate a little on the debate you refer to? Was Walker
> > absolutein his stance, or did he recognize that dyadic
> > communication exists between
> > the "lower orders"?  I'm wondering if it was triadic communication
> > that was
> > the sticking point for him, and therefore the true point of argument?
> >
> >
> >
> > --Rhonda
> >
> > "You live in a deranged age, more deranged than usual, because in
> > spite of
> > great scientific and technological advances, man has not the
> > faintest idea
> > of who he is or what he is doing."
> >
> >                                    Walker Percy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  _____
> >
> >
> > From: Nikkibar AT aol.com
> > Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:43:24 -0400
> > To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [percy-l] Chimp is a challenge
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Marcus,
> >
> >
> >
> > You bring up with painful nostalgia, a long running argument that
> > i carried
> > on with Walker for a great many years. He always asserted that
> > animals of
> > the "lower orders" were unable to communicate -- not only with us
> > but with
> > one another, while I held to the view that 1) he was probably
> > wrong and or
> > 2) that in any event we could never be certain but 3) that it was
> > a measure
> > of our hubris to deny the possibility. As times have gone forward
> > since his
> > death, the empirical jury is still out in my view, but I think my
> > positiongrows stronger day by day.
> >
> >
> >
> > Nikki
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  _____
> >
> >
> > Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch
> > <http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-> 
> stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001>  the video on AOL Home.
> >
> >
> >
> >  _____
> >
> > Test your Star IQ Play now!
> > <http://club.live.com/red_carpet_reveal.aspx?icid=redcarpet_HMTAGMAR>
> >
> >
> --
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>
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