Permaculture Database

["Kenneth Benway" <ken@arcadiandesign.org>]

Paul,
I understand your assessment regarding CADD tools and their cost
effectiveness on a small scale site level project. However when the
scale is increased say to urban scale planning or an ecovillage or
ecoregional scale they become very valuable and cost effective. A good
example of this is Earthaven. They are continuing to work with a paper
drawing that is somewhat cumbersome and hard to update. How nice it
would be to have the site in digital format. It would make it very easy
to update and delineate all of the various aspects of the site. Zones,
Topography, Built environment,etc would be on different layers and in a
format that is easy to share with others as a design analysis tool or
for educational purposes. 
I totally agree with your statement regarding duplication of effort. The
key here is to be able to access the information that is already out
there or sourcing information we may not even know exists. The more we
can cross pollinate our efforts the more likely we are to find existing
nuggets of relevant wisdom and information. One area that there is a
great need to cross pollinate with is with regard to indigenous culture
and wisdom. I remember Bill Mollison saying that if he had to start over
he would devote all of his efforts to collecting this wisdom as it is
being lost so quickly. Although I suspect that more of this wisdom has
been recorded that we realize.
Concerning the funding issue I really like your thinking regarding this.
Thanks for your insight. It makes complete sense to me.
Ken


-----Original Message-----
From: pcdb-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:pcdb-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Paul Cereghino
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 5:28 PM
To: pcdb
Subject: Re: [pcdb] [Permaculture] Structuring Topics and Information

Thank YOU for your interest.  No need for formal address.  I think we 
are a rag tag group that generally are what we do.

I agree on the GIS/CADD front -- neat stuff.  As a plantsperson working 
in a world of highpower spatial analysis however, I believe that many of

these tools can just increase the cost of design services while not 
substantially improving design quality, such that the pretty picture 
doesn't materialize on the ground.  I am a big fan of low tech 
design/build at a site scale, with GIS/CADD primarily used as a survey 
and area calculation tool, with capital resources reserved for materials

and adaptive management.  I think the weakness in ecological design is 
collection, synthesis, and distribution of complex information, with my 
populist goal being that we all become designers (again.)

> how nice it would be to have the database
> interface with Google Earth or some similar platform.
>
Rich -- If and when you get the chance you could allow .KMZ file types 
as a WIKI media, then people could upload google earth markers, and 
people with google earth could download  and browse that way.  There may

be other file types associated with 'google earth plus' that I don't 
know about (.KZL?).
The Keyhole domain has developed considerable functionality for the 
google earth platform.  The power of a simple referential internet is 
that we don't need to develop a do-it-all platform, just point to these 
other resources.  For the interim the wiki/listserv platform allows for 
dynamic user generated content.  The listserve allows broadscale 
conversation on topics, while the wiki allows for a synthesis of that 
topic to be retained... the discussion of orchard grass on the 
permaculture listserv is a good example... I hope to capture those ideas

on a wiki page.
http://bbs.keyhole.com/entrance.php?Cat=0

At some point I would love to browse at the file structure and content 
that makes up a wiki, is this accessible via FTP?

> begin the process of identifying and categorizing various
> bioregions (ecoregions)

I would recommend that we not duplicate work done better by others.  In 
particular, ecosystem conservation interests are defining native climate

and biogeographic patterns at a scale, accuracy and precision that the 
Pc community doesn't have the capacity to duplicate:
http://www.worldwildlife.org/science/ecoregions.cfm
http://www.natureserve.org/
We should ally and piggyback on these well funded efforts.

> We might also find funding to
> put together a team to move a project of this magnitude forward more
> effectively. If anyone else is looking for, or has found financial
> support for projects like these, please let me know so we can
coordinate
> our efforts.  
>
I am starting to think that given the power of open source tools 
currently available suspect that the limiting factors are 1) accurate 
and clear conceptualization of service and product,  2) stakeholder 
buy-in and outreach.  3) skilled staff time to analyze and synthesize 
information to add value to that service/product.  #3  requires the 
money... but would be categorized as operations and maintenance cost.  
Funders typically don't like to fund O&M.  They want to start something 
and walk away.  I suspect we'd be best served by generating a high 
quality prototype (#1) that precisely and effectively identifies and 
serves a stakeholder group, then seeking sponsorship for O&M and 
development as opposed to 'funding' in the sense of grants or awards.  
The information product must hit the nail squarely, we can demonstrate 
that product on a shoestring while building the stakeholder group.  
Other Permawikis appear to have stagnated -- it would be useful to 
understand why.

Sorry if I'm being abrasive -- just putting my 2 cents on the table.

Paul Cereghino
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