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pcdb - Re: [pcdb] Links from the PIW wiki

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Subject: Permaculture Database

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  • From: Bear Kaufmann <bear@ursine-design.com>
  • To: pcdb <pcdb@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [pcdb] Links from the PIW wiki
  • Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:29:12 -0700

On Apr 3, 2007, at 11:58 PM, Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote:

Bear Kaufmann wrote:

I've uploaded some links I had collected and placed on the now
defunct PIW/pcplantdb wiki:
http://pcdb.pbwiki.com/piwResources

Where did that domain come from? Who owns it?
I thought the pcplantdb wiki was on ibiblio at www.permaculture.info.
What happened to that?

If you're referring to pbwiki.com, Paul C. set the wiki up on that host, what pbwiki's TOS imply I'm not sure. It's a good, perhaps temporary, place to organize our thoughts.

The wiki and permaculture.info was hosted by ibiblio. The permaculture.info domain currently points to Chad's site, so the wiki is not web accessible. I haven't tried to find my l/p and log in to the ibiblio account to see if the files still exist.

Oh, with that, I'd like to cast my vote in for moving the two
projects together. The goals are very similar and the other project
has been inactive for a while.

I am completely opposed to that happening. If anyone in that (Chad's) project
wants to join this list and help in development efforts that should be fine.
OK.
They know this list and this new project exists; so far you alone have shown interest.
OK.
The very thought of certain folk(s) diddling things into a time and money wasting boondoggle
like they did before plus...
I'm not sure if I'd characterize it that way. Chad became involved in other (physical) projects and had less time to develop.
Stronger project management would have been useful.

...the crude attempt to usurp the pc list makes me cringe.

As I said, if they want to find us, they know where we are. Without any visible sign of
interest on their part making available to them what we have done so far plus prospects
for the future, risking the project becoming mired in the mud and inactive as before, is ludicrous.
What I'm saying, is that there was a period of valuable discussion about the project on the listserv. Some of the same issues were discussed there and could provide useful information. The goals of the 2 projects are very similar (including thinking beyond plants (which I believe is why we moved towards Permaculture Information Web), guild designing, etc). Since Chad has shown a willingness to move the project on to other interested parties, this project seems to be it.
What merging the two projects implies, would probably be not much more then what has currently happened. But having two projects working side by side to the same goal or not benefiting from what's come before, does seem wasteful.

I wrote earlier:

1) Are we going to embark on a new project?
That is what's happening. With good input from a number of people.
Or
2) Are we or is anyone, going to:
a) Integrate Chad's work into our new project?
b) Finish the work Chad started as he envisioned it?

And as I have said a hundred times, our project needs to involve the Permaculture community-at-large, especially those
people in the various permaculture forums. People need to feel that it is _their_ project and that their participation
and input is desired and valued. This was rarely, if ever, done in the previous project and is probably why it ground to
a halt, unfinished.
Agreed. Though accouncements of the development work going on were occasionally made to the PC lists.
I don't think the project reached a state were it was ready to draw on the full knowledge of a large number of users. Plus there was another list used to draw some information from potential users.

That may be a point to consider for this project: finding a way to maximize user input at an early stage of development.

If this is an open source permaculture information system, free to all, people will be interested in
what happens to it. ibiblio is the obvious and most useful hosting site for us and its free. Funding can be raised
through solicitation of direct donations and through Paypal.

Of course anyone can develop a commercial pc database but I expect they'll be on their own and will find it difficult to
find unpaid volunteers, unlike this project.
If you are implying pcplantdb was moving that way, discussions on the subject went about as far as on here: possibly working with nurseries, etc.

Cheers,
Bear




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