North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[mark wessel <growyourown@earthlink.net>]

Greetings All

What a mixed up and confusing genus with nurseries offering mis identified 
plants only adding to the confusion. 
Unless past knowledge about Morus nigra is totally incorrect, M. nigra is not 
hardy in most of the country. Indeed, it does not like humidity but it also 
will not handle temps much below 15 F. Extensive conversations with A.J. 
Bullard are the basis of my knowledge on the subject. He is the first along 
with Michael at Edible Landscaping to  import M. nigra into this country.
I am working on a dichotomous key for Morus nigra, alba and rubber. Not that 
this will relieve all id problems but it will be a good start. The species 
have very distinct characteristics that differentiate themselves.
There are two sources so far that have added to the confusion. First, a major 
seed house is offering M. nigra seeds which in fact are M alba. Many 
nurseries use this seed house and end up selling mis id plants.
Secondly, A tissue culture lab is selling a dwarf nigra. I do not know 
exactly what it is, I suspect alba , but it is not nigra. It doesn’t possess 
any of the diagnostic characteristics of nigra and it has survived 12 below F 
in a pot sitting above the soil level. Burnt Ridge is offering one that fits 
this bill. I now have it from three different sources and all are the same.
Then there is the issue of how freely alb and rubra hybridize.

Mark




> On Mar 28, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Robert Bruns <r.fred.bruns@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Lee -
> 
> I'm pretty sure got it from Raintree.  It's a very small plant, still less
> than 3 feet tall.  It gets a leaf disease that doesn't affect any of my M.
> Alba/rubra, maybe that's why it isn't growing
> 
> With respect to hardiness, I would bet the problem isn't surviving the cold
> in mid-winter, especially if the plant is fully dormant and protected.  The
> problem is that the subtropical mulberries leaf out too early in the spring
> and then get clobbered by late frosts.
> 
> Fred
> 
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:08 PM, SC <filtertitle@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I think the issue is that of humidity; not cold-tollerance.  Mine in
>> ground 3-4 years.. occasionally bellow 0 F.
>> M. nigra -- for certain
>> 
>> 
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone--------
>> Original message --------From: Lee Reich <leeareich@gmail.com> Date:
>> 3/28/2016  10:49 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: mailing list at ibiblio -
>> Northamerican Allied Fruit Experimenters <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nafex] Morus Nigra Chilling Requirements, Etc
>> Fred, I am very surprised at the amount of cold your M. nigra tolerated,
>> although we don’t know just how cold it got in the unheated greenhouse.
>> Where did you get your M. nigra, because sometimes nurseries mislabel the
>> plant?
>> 
>> Lee Reich, PhD
>> Come visit my farmden at  http://www.leereich.com/blog <
>> http://www.leereich.com/blog>
>> http://leereich.com/ <http://leereich.com/>
>> 
>> Books by Lee Reich:
>> A Northeast Gardener's Year
>> The Pruning Book
>> Weedless Gardening
>> Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden
>> Landscaping with Fruit
>> Grow Fruit Naturally
>> 
>>> On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:25 AM, Nathan Wilson <nathan.b.c.wilson@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks very much Fred. This is exactly the sort of information I'm
>> looking
>>> for.
>>> 
>>> Nathan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Friday, March 25, 2016, Robert Bruns <r.fred.bruns@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I have M. nigra "Noir de Spain" in a pot.  I overwintered it in a cool
>>>> greenhouse where the temperature was set to 60 degrees but got down as
>> low
>>>> as 35 on extremely cold nights.  The plant sprouted about a month ago,
>>>> which implies that your option D would work.
>>>> 
>>>> A few years ago, my previous greenhouse had its heater fail on a night
>>> when
>>>> the temperature got down to minus 15.  My Morus nigra survived, but my
>>> figs
>>>> didn't.  So your options A and B might work, but I think they are iffy.
>>> In
>>>> your option C, I'm sure the plant would leaf out in the basement.
>>>> 
>>>> Good luck!
>>>> 
>>>> Fred
>>>> central Indiana, zone 6 (formerly zone 5b)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Nathan Wilson <
>>> nathan.b.c.wilson@gmail.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>> 
>>>>> What are the chilling requirements of morus nigra?
>>>>> 1. Minimum chilling hours needed to ensure fruit set the next year.
>>>>> 2. Maximum temperature that 'counts' as chilling hours.
>>>>> 3. What conditions trigger the plants to break dormancy?
>>>>> 4. What are the lowest short-term and long-term temperatures the plant
>>> will
>>>>> survive?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Background information: As mentioned in a previous post, I'm in zone
>> 5/6
>>>>> and have morus nigra in 87 litre (23 U.S. gal) pots.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm weighing my options:
>>>>> A. Bury the plants in winter, just like some people do with figs. I'm
>> not
>>>>> sure if morus nigra is hardy enough for this.
>>>>> B. Put the plants in an unheated, detached garage over winter. I think
>> it
>>>>> would get far too cold in January and February and would kill the
>> plants,
>>>>> although I haven't documented temperatures yet.
>>>>> C. Leave the plants outside until around Christmas to satisfy chilling
>>>>> requirements, then put them in a cool basement, which is presently 12
>>> deg C
>>>>> (54 deg F), and hope the plants don't break dormancy before I can bring
>>>>> them back outside.
>>>>> D. Greenhouse: I have a mekeshift greenhouse setup in my cellar door
>>>>> stairway. The temperature fluctuates, but I can control it to a point.
>>> The
>>>>> benefit of having the plants in the greenhouse is that I think it could
>>>>> reduce the number of years it takes the plants to bear, by making them
>>>>> slightly healthier and more vigorous (this was pointed out by Lee
>> Reich).
>>>>> But, perhaps I can't have my cake and eat it too.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Any input or experiences would be appreciated.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Nathan
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