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[mark wessel <growyourown@earthlink.net>]

Very well said Jeff!





On Mar 31, 2014, at 8:29 AM, Jeff Jourdain wrote:

> To say this is a touchy subject is to say the least.  To me it's not a 
> question of whether a plant is exotic or not, the invasive issue is does it 
> take over the site/habitat.  As a forester in Western Massachusetts I can 
> take you to places that you can't walk through because of multiflora rose 
> or barberry or buckthorn.  Places where the threes have suffered 
> significant damage from oriental bittersweet.  How much 'good' are they 
> doing?  
> 
> Many of these 'invasives' have beneficial attributes.  Autumn olive is high 
> in vitamin C. Japanese knotweed is known to help with Lyme disease.  But do 
> miles of the Deerfield River need to have it's banks taken over by it?  
> What native shrubs with beneficial attributes have been displaced by the 
> knotweed along the river?
> 
> Succession of old agricultural sites/fields has been going on in New 
> England since the late 1800's.  They did just fine then before these plants 
> became an issue.  
> 
> These plants are here because of 'our' doing.  They were brought over and 
> utilized for many reasons including landscaping or 'living' fences or a 
> host of other uses.  They do take over disturbed or deficient sites.  If 
> they weren't here what plants would take over?  
> 
> Where do we draw the line with 'invasives'?  Plants that are here are OK?  
> What about the Emerald ash borer or the asian long horned beetle or 
> chestnut blight or Dutch elm disease?  Or starlings? We brought all of them 
> over as well. What if kudzu makes it way up here?  
> 
> We all have different perspectives and values.  Apples are important to 
> many of us on this list, but I can say in 30 years of working in the woods 
> I have never seen an area overrun or taken over by apples.  Even the old 
> orchards around old farm sites don't spread out of control.  
> 
> I know we will never win the war with invasives, but I think there are 
> sites and habitats worth fighting for.  Instead of planting Autumn olive to 
> encourage it [it seems to do pretty well on its own] why not plant some of 
> the natives it displaced and encourage more diversity.
> 
> 
> On Sunday, March 30, 2014 11:15 PM, Devin Smith <dvidedevo@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Invasive species are clearly a touchy subject. I see them as largely an 
> epiphenomenon. Why aren't apple trees considered to displace native 
> species? They have naturalized heavily here in New England. Could it be 
> that we deem it of value and therefore are willing to overlook its 
> "impacts". As I understand it, roughly 40% of all wildflower species in the 
> northeast are naturalized "invaders", and yet they seem to form stable 
> populations and to interact with the native vegetation in synergistic 
> rather than destructive ways. Isn't there likely a time factor at work? If 
> the dandelion arrived tomorrow instead of 350 years ago, how would we 
> react? 
> 
> 
> Historically, here in New England, two centuries of clear cutting and 
> grazing were followed by a century of chemical warfare against nearly all 
> shrubs, causing population viability of many shrub species to decline 
> precipitously. We have a cultural opposition to shrubby growth habit and 
> shrub land environments, thus a tendency to see shrubs of all kinds as 
> damaging. Ecological succession itself is considered a nuisance or plague 
> by many. In this era, when succession is happening on a mass scale-- as 
> cleared land reverts to forested land-- its inevitable that shrubs will 
> have a dominate influence. 
> 
> 
> I understand that economic harm and changes in species dynamics result (at 
> least in the short term) but I think that those concerned with invasive 
> species should consider what it is they are opposing. How about the habitat 
> fragmentation that results from our network of paved roads-- an ecosystem 
> in the truest sense, but merely one conceived without regard for ecology. 
> Isn't this now ubiquitously fragmented disturbed aspect of the American 
> landscape more at the root than merely the species who choose to call that 
> landscape home. 
> 
> 
> I can appreciate the need to consider the matter of potential to 
> naturalize, but given that Autumn Olive is nearly ubiquitous here (in the 
> northeast) now, I see no need to hold back planting it, nor its next of 
> kin. Nor do I think it is possible to eradicate it in our landscape. In 
> fact, I am actively seeking to plant it in part because I am sure that some 
> day soon the roadside one's I have been harvesting will all be nuked with 
> herbicide, otherwise I would just keep picking those. As ecologically 
> conscious individuals, I think we should attempt first and fore most to 
> make an honest assessment of what healthy landscapes actually consist of 
> and put our efforts primarily into helping ecosystems thrive all around us. 
> Nature does not consist solely of the rare, the adorable, and the immense, 
> but its also the common, the hidden, and the unvalued. If we aren't 
> creating health and resilience in our own environment, how can we suppose 
> to act beneficially in the
> larger realm of ecology?
> 
> I understand that passions run high around these issues, and its not my 
> goal to be divisive. However, other views around "invasive" species seem to 
> often to be lacking despite the fact that many intelligent and ecologically 
> minded individuals seem to share these views. I offer them up humbly for 
> your consideration.
> 
> -Devin Smith
> Rockingham, VT
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