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  • From: Chris Carnevale <c.s.carnevale@gmail.com>
  • To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [nafex] nafex Digest, Vol 134, Issue 19
  • Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 12:24:03 -0400

Goumi (Eleagnus multiflora) isn't nearly as rampant in North America as Russian Olive (E. angustifolia) or Autumn Olive (E. umbellata). Also, as I understand it, the invasiveness of these /Eleagni/ [plural eleagnus?] is partially due to it being planted en masse by restoration crews to stabilize slopes, roads, provide wildlife food, and act as a windbreak on farms and ranches, etc. I learned last night that they have been planted in Appalachia to help restore areas devastated by mountaintop removal coal mining. So it's interesting to keep in mind that these plants, because of their pioneering tendencies, have helped restore degraded ecosystems as well. I'm thinking that if E. multiflora or E. latifolia, etc. are planted in much more moderate ways, they wouldn't have the same potential for pioneering.

Chris Carnevale


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Today's Topics:

1. Elaeagnus angustifolia (Robert Stanton)
2. Re: Elaeagnus angustifolia (Deb Schneider)
3. Re: Elaeagnus angustifolia (Mary Yett)
4. Re: Elaeagnus angustifolia (Idell Weydemeyer)
5. Re: Elaeagnus angustifolia (Steven Covacci)
6. Re: Elaeagnus angustifolia (Idell Weydemeyer)
7. Re: Elaeagnus angustifolia (Elizabeth Hilborn)
8. Re: Elaeagnus angustifolia (Steven Covacci)
9. Re: Elaeagnus angustifolia (Idell Weydemeyer)
10. Re: Elaeagnus angustifolia (Idell Weydemeyer)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 12:00:37 -0500
From: Robert Stanton <robert.l.stanton@gmail.com>
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia
Message-ID:
<CAAeZ2kGVW2ymSXOMG0qc6zHv0j=GXt459-VsTrPt92yw6ufWhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Just out of curiosity, does anyone on this list consider the invasive
potential of the plants they use? I dedicate a significant portion of my
time to removing autumn and Russian olive from landscapes here in the
midwest, and it's always disheartening to hear others actively planting
more of what needs to be removed to maintain diverse natural plant
communities.

Robert


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 13:45:30 -0400
From: Deb Schneider <debs913@gmail.com>
To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia
Message-ID:
<CANAPGeCm2pXU8xqX8LzSySc5SjWW7y3aFmoO4EtQ72M+pHfBdw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I've thought that myself. Except for the fact that the dairy goats like to
eat it, the stuff is an AWFUL pest plant that spreads horribly on our
farm. Berries are boring tasting too.

deb


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Robert Stanton
<robert.l.stanton@gmail.com>wrote:

Just out of curiosity, does anyone on this list consider the invasive
potential of the plants they use? I dedicate a significant portion of my
time to removing autumn and Russian olive from landscapes here in the
midwest, and it's always disheartening to hear others actively planting
more of what needs to be removed to maintain diverse natural plant
communities.

Robert
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 15:02:51 -0400
From: Mary Yett <yettmw@gmail.com>
To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia
Message-ID:
<CABoDHy7uryJ7fyiLB_74wyq9WEOoOSOBSnYJJv11eouG7kS=4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Whether or not a plant becomes invasive depends a lot on the local climate.
Here on Manitoulin Island, Ontario in a humid zone 4 with a maritime
climate ( cool summers), none of the Eleagnus spp have ever become a pest
sp. In hotter, southern Ontario, there are areas where Autumn Olive, for
example , has naturalized as a pioneer sp.

In humid climates,these pioneer spp typically establish only on disturbed
and/or infertile ground. Their role in the natural succession of
temperate,humid ecosystems is to fix nitrogen from the air, improve the
soil, provide a bit of shade for other, taller trees to germinate in and
then die out when the taller trees shade them out.

Our dominate agriculture system keeps succession at the ruderal stage
(early annual weeds, ie annual crops, and pioneer woody spp) by the use of
constant disturbance (plowing annually,mowing roadsides, etc). This creates
good habitat for pioneer spp, both native and introduced.If left alone in a
temperate humid climate, Eleagnus spp just do their work and then fade away
and do not have a negative impact on the native ecosystems.

I realize that in a dry climate, esp with poor soils, the picture can be
very different.


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:45 PM, Deb Schneider <debs913@gmail.com> wrote:

I've thought that myself. Except for the fact that the dairy goats like to
eat it, the stuff is an AWFUL pest plant that spreads horribly on our
farm. Berries are boring tasting too.

deb


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Robert Stanton
<robert.l.stanton@gmail.com>wrote:

Just out of curiosity, does anyone on this list consider the invasive
potential of the plants they use? I dedicate a significant portion of my
time to removing autumn and Russian olive from landscapes here in the
midwest, and it's always disheartening to hear others actively planting
more of what needs to be removed to maintain diverse natural plant
communities.

Robert
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 13:54:19 -0700
From: "Idell Weydemeyer" <iwgarden@earthlink.net>
To: "'nafex mailing list at ibiblio'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia
Message-ID: <003501cf49fe$b9ef6af0$2dce40d0$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Some (many?) Elaeagnus are on the list of invasive plants in many states. I
am in cooler Northern California climate with no rain for 5-8 months so I
have never once in 30 years had a seedling start. However, that does not
mean that they might get a start in a riparian area.

By the way, One Green World has an Eleagnus x ebbingei -- My one grafted
branch of that is yummie.-- if the grft was named correctly.
https://www.onegreenworld.com/product.php?id=1096&; . My plant just arrived
today.

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Robert Stanton
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 10:01 AM
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia

Just out of curiosity, does anyone on this list consider the invasive
potential of the plants they use? I dedicate a significant portion of my
time to removing autumn and Russian olive from landscapes here in the
midwest, and it's always disheartening to hear others actively planting
more of what needs to be removed to maintain diverse natural plant
communities.

Robert
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 17:28:45 -0400
From: Steven Covacci <filtertitle@gmail.com>
To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Cc: nafex mailing list at ibiblio <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia
Message-ID: <77E19EF7-413D-49AE-ACDE-278AE2E3BAFA@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Should Eleagnus x ebbingei taste better than Autumn-olive?

Thanks,
Steve

On Mar 27, 2014, at 4:54 PM, "Idell Weydemeyer" <iwgarden@earthlink.net>
wrote:

Eleagnus x ebbingei

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 19:06:29 -0700
From: "Idell Weydemeyer" <iwgarden@earthlink.net>
To: "'nafex mailing list at ibiblio'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia
Message-ID: <004801cf4a2a$55b87eb0$01297c10$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The Elaeagnus I have has a very good flavor and is quite large.-- if it is
ebbingei. I will find out with my new plant.

I have an autumn olvie that is an evergreen one that has excellent flavored
berries. I also have 5 named varieties. Some autumn olives I have tasted are
so tart that they I just spit them out.

Idell Weydmeyer

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Steven Covacci
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 2:29 PM
To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio
Cc: nafex mailing list at ibiblio
Subject: Re: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia

Should Eleagnus x ebbingei taste better than Autumn-olive?

Thanks,
Steve

On Mar 27, 2014, at 4:54 PM, "Idell Weydemeyer" <iwgarden@earthlink.net>
wrote:

Eleagnus x ebbingei
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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 06:48:28 -0400
From: Elizabeth Hilborn <ehilborn@mebtel.net>
To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia
Message-ID: <5335537C.60804@mebtel.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Mary, I do not think that humidity is the key variable. I live in a
very humid zone 7. They are intrepid invaders here in both disturbed and
intact forest and grasslands, I manage them, but cannot eradicate them.

I would not plant one on purpose.

Betsy Hilborn
Zone 7a (again!), NC

On 3/27/2014 3:02 PM, Mary Yett wrote:
Whether or not a plant becomes invasive depends a lot on the local climate.
Here on Manitoulin Island, Ontario in a humid zone 4 with a maritime
climate ( cool summers), none of the Eleagnus spp have ever become a pest
sp. In hotter, southern Ontario, there are areas where Autumn Olive, for
example , has naturalized as a pioneer sp.

In humid climates,these pioneer spp typically establish only on disturbed
and/or infertile ground. Their role in the natural succession of
temperate,humid ecosystems is to fix nitrogen from the air, improve the
soil, provide a bit of shade for other, taller trees to germinate in and
then die out when the taller trees shade them out.

Our dominate agriculture system keeps succession at the ruderal stage
(early annual weeds, ie annual crops, and pioneer woody spp) by the use of
constant disturbance (plowing annually,mowing roadsides, etc). This creates
good habitat for pioneer spp, both native and introduced.If left alone in a
temperate humid climate, Eleagnus spp just do their work and then fade away
and do not have a negative impact on the native ecosystems.

I realize that in a dry climate, esp with poor soils, the picture can be
very different.


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Robert Stanton
<robert.l.stanton@gmail.com>wrote:

Just out of curiosity, does anyone on this list consider the invasive
potential of the plants they use? I dedicate a significant portion of my
time to removing autumn and Russian olive from landscapes here in the
midwest, and it's always disheartening to hear others actively planting
more of what needs to be removed to maintain diverse natural plant
communities.

Robert
__________________



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 09:30:03 -0400
From: Steven Covacci <filtertitle@gmail.com>
To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Cc: nafex mailing list at ibiblio <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia
Message-ID: <424C37A2-465D-4C7B-A920-AF65044B1689@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Does Elaeagnus x ebbenei produce a fruit which is superior to that of a
select variety (i.e. 'Ruby', etc.) of Autumn-olive?

Thanks,
Steve

On Mar 27, 2014, at 10:06 PM, "Idell Weydemeyer" <iwgarden@earthlink.net>
wrote:

The Elaeagnus I have has a very good flavor and is quite large.-- if it is
ebbingei. I will find out with my new plant.

I have an autumn olvie that is an evergreen one that has excellent flavored
berries. I also have 5 named varieties. Some autumn olives I have tasted are
so tart that they I just spit them out.

Idell Weydmeyer

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Steven Covacci
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 2:29 PM
To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio
Cc: nafex mailing list at ibiblio
Subject: Re: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia

Should Eleagnus x ebbingei taste better than Autumn-olive?

Thanks,
Steve

On Mar 27, 2014, at 4:54 PM, "Idell Weydemeyer" <iwgarden@earthlink.net>
wrote:

Eleagnus x ebbingei
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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 08:49:21 -0700
From: "Idell Weydemeyer" <iwgarden@earthlink.net>
To: "'nafex mailing list at ibiblio'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia
Message-ID: <001b01cf4a9d$496e25b0$dc4a7110$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

If the one I have is E x ebbenei-- yes. But I do like them both,
particularly my evergreen autumn olive that is apparently not in any
catalog.

Idell

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Steven Covacci
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 6:30 AM
To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio
Cc: nafex mailing list at ibiblio
Subject: Re: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia

Does Elaeagnus x ebbenei produce a fruit which is superior to that of a
select variety (i.e. 'Ruby', etc.) of Autumn-olive?

Thanks,
Steve

On Mar 27, 2014, at 10:06 PM, "Idell Weydemeyer" <iwgarden@earthlink.net>
wrote:

The Elaeagnus I have has a very good flavor and is quite large.-- if it is
ebbingei. I will find out with my new plant.

I have an autumn olvie that is an evergreen one that has excellent
flavored
berries. I also have 5 named varieties. Some autumn olives I have tasted
are
so tart that they I just spit them out.

Idell Weydmeyer

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Steven Covacci
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 2:29 PM
To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio
Cc: nafex mailing list at ibiblio
Subject: Re: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia

Should Eleagnus x ebbingei taste better than Autumn-olive?

Thanks,
Steve

On Mar 27, 2014, at 4:54 PM, "Idell Weydemeyer" <iwgarden@earthlink.net>
wrote:

Eleagnus x ebbingei
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------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 08:53:15 -0700
From: "Idell Weydemeyer" <iwgarden@earthlink.net>
To: "'nafex mailing list at ibiblio'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia
Message-ID: <001c01cf4a9d$d5043f60$7f0cbe20$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

-- I have read that Goumi is not nearly as invasive as autumn olive but do
not have direct experience with that since neither my autumn olive nor my
goumi has produced seedlings-- ever-- but as I said earlier-- birds could
spread it to a riparian zone --although I have seen none anywhere near here
--but then again, as far as I know very few grow it around here.

In areas that it is called invasive, it can be a huge problem, apparently.


Idell zone 9b

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Hilborn
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 3:48 AM
To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio
Subject: Re: [nafex] Elaeagnus angustifolia

Mary, I do not think that humidity is the key variable. I live in a
very humid zone 7. They are intrepid invaders here in both disturbed and
intact forest and grasslands, I manage them, but cannot eradicate them.

I would not plant one on purpose.

Betsy Hilborn
Zone 7a (again!), NC

On 3/27/2014 3:02 PM, Mary Yett wrote:
Whether or not a plant becomes invasive depends a lot on the local
climate.
Here on Manitoulin Island, Ontario in a humid zone 4 with a maritime
climate ( cool summers), none of the Eleagnus spp have ever become a pest
sp. In hotter, southern Ontario, there are areas where Autumn Olive, for
example , has naturalized as a pioneer sp.

In humid climates,these pioneer spp typically establish only on disturbed
and/or infertile ground. Their role in the natural succession of
temperate,humid ecosystems is to fix nitrogen from the air, improve the
soil, provide a bit of shade for other, taller trees to germinate in and
then die out when the taller trees shade them out.

Our dominate agriculture system keeps succession at the ruderal stage
(early annual weeds, ie annual crops, and pioneer woody spp) by the use of
constant disturbance (plowing annually,mowing roadsides, etc). This
creates
good habitat for pioneer spp, both native and introduced.If left alone in
a
temperate humid climate, Eleagnus spp just do their work and then fade
away
and do not have a negative impact on the native ecosystems.

I realize that in a dry climate, esp with poor soils, the picture can be
very different.


On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Robert Stanton
<robert.l.stanton@gmail.com>wrote:

Just out of curiosity, does anyone on this list consider the invasive
potential of the plants they use? I dedicate a significant portion of
my
time to removing autumn and Russian olive from landscapes here in the
midwest, and it's always disheartening to hear others actively planting
more of what needs to be removed to maintain diverse natural plant
communities.

Robert
__________________

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------------------------------

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End of nafex Digest, Vol 134, Issue 19
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