North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["Charles Rhora" <rhoras@nuttrees.com>]

Further to my recent comments about specifically nut trees.  
I also grow other varieties of seedling trees that will survive in climatic
zones 1 to 9 here in Canada.  We have many members of nafex in Canada.
Throughout the years I have had the ability to collect and successfully grow
edible nuts and fruits that will survive in these climatic zones.  For the
more northern parts of Canada and the United States where temperatures dip
to -40 to -50 degrees F., I have the edible nut pines and a few types of
deciduous nut trees available (these deciduous nut trees are obviously very
few).  We are able to grow as many as 8 varieties of paw paw's, and as many
of the native American persimmon, beach plumb, plus the edible Chinese
dogwood, etc.   Obviously we grow all of these from seeds because there is
no benefit in trying to graft trees, just because someone has decided that
grafted trees are the only way to reproduce superior trees.  The edible nut
pine tree seeds, reproduce seedlings that are in most cases far superior to
the mother tree, as all but 3 varieties are not native to North America and
cannot adjust to the differences in soil textures to enable them to draw the
proper nutrients from a "foreign" type soil.  So they need an "inoculant" or
mycorrhizas,  etc. (will add that all of these are created with natural
ingredients, no synthetic substance at all!).  Once established, the fungi
attaches to the feeder roots and enable the pines to absorb the nutrients
from the soil and thus the increase in size of nuts produced in the cones. 
In other cases, reproduction can be achieved by other means, such as
layering, etc. (A couple of examples are the hazelnut and Japanese Heartnut)
- there are other's that can be reproduced in this manner as well. 
 My experience with the minor fruits, mentioned above, are by careful
selection of seeds from these trees will create superior seedlings to be
selected by eliminating some delays in obtaining the seedlings to production
stage. (such as - eliminating stratification - testing seedlings at an
earlier age - which I covered in previous message.  By eliminating these,
one can tell in 3 - 4 years, which is a short period of time, whether to
continue with this particular seedling, or discard it and concentrate on
other seedlings.   Mind you, one has to grow hundreds, or even thousands of
these to obtain the necessary seedlings that one desires and have it on its
own root system.
We also grow apples, peaches, pears, apricots, etc. for our own consumption.
Possibly will discuss these at a later date.
One closing comment is that it is not all my doing, but the Lord's helping
hand.


Charles Rhora.
Climatic zone 4.

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Alan Haigh
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:35 PM
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [nafex] Charles argument- advantage of seedling nut trees

As I've said many times, we are all in love with our own anecdotal
experience, but generally actually putting those experiences to controlled
study is far more useful as a form a evaluation.  For instance, where is the
proof that those proven seedlings wouldn't perform ultimately more
efficiently as grafts grafted to seedlings from the same mother?  I mean,
because you could maintain truly outstanding strains clonally.   The fact
that a lot of grafted trees died means close to nothing scientifically
except as a premise to begin experimentation.  Much of folklore is valid but
without actual scientific evaluation how does one to separate the wheat from
the straw?

Of course, if you are dealing with varieties that aren't capable of
surviving your climate you are better off growing seedlings that may.

One of my anecdotal evaluations is that grafts are generally more cold
tender when young because of their increased precosity.  Making babies too
young may leave plants more vulnerable to winter kill because they are left
with too little energy to harden off properly after producing fruit or nuts.
You can counter this by (according to my anecdotal experience) removing
flowers for first couple of years so energy goes where needed.  I have
Dunstan Chestnut grafts that survived test winters here that were, according
to the supplier, not capable of surviving such cold where I employed this
technique.
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