North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[John S <swim_at_svc@yahoo.com>]

1) Not all fruits ripen well.  The ones that do are "addictive".
2) Not aware of any specific conditions that caused problems.  Trees did not 
emerge from winter dormancy.  Did not follow up to try to find out.
3) Was going to do that myself but never tried it.  If you are good at 
grafting, get an Elegant and graft to other rootstock or trees.  My manual 
dexterity is poor, so my grafts are not very successful.



--- On Sun, 4/3/11, Steven Covacci <filtertitle@aol.com> wrote:

From: Steven Covacci <filtertitle@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] CORNELIAN-CHERRY; nafex Digest, Vol 99, Issue 1
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Sunday, April 3, 2011, 1:43 AM

John S,


1. What do you mean by cv. 'Pioneer' having a consistency issue?  Like a ripe 
persimmon?  
2. What are your general growing conditions that you've lost several trees of 
cv. 'Elegant'; are you in a very cold or hot zone?  If not, then I'll avoid 
it.
3. What about my idea to multi-graft a Cornelian-cherry?


Thanks,
Steve
NJ zone 6b/7a


------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 00:31:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: John S <swim_at_svc@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Looking for recommendation for CORNELIAN CHERRY
    (Cornus    mas), and/or scionwood or nursery source.
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <432868.15760.qm@web110215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Steven,? The best I've tried is Elegant. Consistently better tasting fruit.? 
Yellow is also good but smaller fruit.? Pioneer probably has the best tasting 
ones, but has a consistency issue and needs to be dead ripe before it gets 
good.? Elegant seems to be more delicate than the others mentioned and I have 
lost several trees of it.? Pioneer has never produced a lot of fruit for me, 
just a few.

Go with at least two varieties for pollination and max production.? 







-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-request <nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: nafex <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2011 8:02 am
Subject: nafex Digest, Vol 99, Issue 1


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Today's Topics:

   1. pear rootstock availability (Justin West)
   2. Re: Good article on Hickories (Hilborn.E@epamail.epa.gov)
   3. Carmine Jewel (Ernest Plutko)
   4. Hickories (Dr. Lucky Pittman)
   5. Re: Hickories (mIEKAL aND)
   6. Cold-hardiness components (Douglas Woodard)
   7. Re: Hickories (Dr. Lucky Pittman)
   8. Re: Hickories (mIEKAL aND)
   9. Re: Hickories (Dr. Lucky Pittman)
  10. fertilizing peaches etc. (Alan Haigh)
  11. blackberry trial report (alden@waldenwinds.com)
  12. Stinkbugs Defeat Apple Bags (Don Yellman)
  13. Re: blackberry trial report (Ginda Fisher)
  14. Re: Stinkbugs Defeat Apple Bags (Scott Smith)
  15. Looking for recommendation for CORNELIAN CHERRY (Cornus mas),
      and/or scionwood or nursery source. (Steven Covacci)
  16. Looking for native edibles scionwood.. (Steven Covacci)
  17. Re: Looking for recommendation for CORNELIAN CHERRY (Cornus
      mas), and/or scionwood or nursery source. (John S)
  18. Blueberries and ph (Anne Seymour)
  19. Re: Fertilizing peaches? (Anton Callaway)
  20. Re: Blueberries and ph (John S)
  21. Re: Blueberries and ph (Ernest Plutko)
  22. Re: Blueberries and ph (Ginda Fisher)
  23. Re: Pear rootstock availability? (Kieran &/or Donna)
  24. Re: Looking for recommendation for CORNELIAN CHERRY (Cornus
      mas), and/or scionwood or nursery source. (Ginda Fisher)
  25. Grape trellis spans (Christopher Kennel)
  26. Carmine Jewel size? (Ginda Fisher)
  27. Cold-hardiness components - kiwi and other victims in    central
      NC (Hilborn.E@epamail.epa.gov)
  28. Re: Cold-hardiness components - kiwi and other victims in
      central NC (Amelia Hayner)
  29. Re: Carmine Jewel size? (Bob Bors)
  30. Re: Carmine Jewel size? (Anton Callaway)
  31. Re: Carmine Jewel size? (Ginda Fisher)
  32. apple variety recommendations (jerrydana5@aol.com)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:17:17 -0400
From: Justin West <cjustinwest@gmail.com>
Subject: [NAFEX] pear rootstock availability
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
    <AANLkTikNBQ8gdujHihHUX_wu54gtnBLrFyoqtqJD+miF@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 Richard,
If the feral callery pear situation is anything like it is here in NJ, I
suggest you just top work some feral ornamentals at about 4-5 feet high with
your scions and you will have instant deer proof trees.  Deer won't touch
callery pear here, and we have A LOT of deer.  I have been doing just that
for several years now and have several acres of semi wild pear orchard in
the making.  I have gotten pear, asian pear, hawthorn, sorbopyrus, and even
apple to take on the caller pear using cleft graft, although I expect the
apple to abort.
justin west
NJ

www.regenerativeecology.com


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:46:33 -0400
From: Hilborn.E@epamail.epa.gov
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Good article on Hickories
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    
<OFAF9A1AEA.5CD3EEC8-ON85257864.006C74D7-85257864.006CA20B@epamail.epa.gov>
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII


Thanks Lucky!  I had never realized that pignut and mockernut hickories
were edible.  I just planted some of John Brittain's grafted shagbarks
this spring.  Wish me luck getting them established. I find grafted nut
trees difficult to grow on my dry uplands as they are such water hogs.

Betsy Hilborn
7a Central NC



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:15:27 -0500
From: "Ernest Plutko" <ernestplutko@wiktel.com>
Subject: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <380-220113431201527515@wiktel.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Received three Carmine Jewel bushes today from St Lawrence Nursery. 
Nice plants about 36 inches high above the roots. Nice buds on them.I
planted each one inside in a big pot.  Ground outside is frozen with
two feet of snow.  I have more Carmine Jewel bushes coming.  Have to
buy more pots.



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:13:35 -0500
From: "Dr. Lucky Pittman" <lucky.pittman@murraystate.edu>
Subject: [NAFEX] Hickories
To: "'North American Fruit Explorers'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4d94e073.4807dc0a.0c41.36c5@mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

Betsy, 
Mockernut(C.tomentosa) and some Pignut(C.glabra) hickories are edible - and
quite tasty; mockernuts have a strong hickory flavor, rivaling black walnut
in flavor intensity.  
Problem with them is that the thickness of the shell and the prominent
ridges of the internal shell structure tends to trap the kernel, precluding
you being able to extract much more than tiny little kernel fragments. 
There are occasional trees, however, if you'll sample the nuts, that do
crack out reasonably well - but I've never come across a mockernut that
cracks out as well as even the poorest shagbark.
I've got one tree on the farm here that I'd once thought was a hybrid
between shagbark and mockernut - but is probably C.ovalis, red hickory -
cracks out better than some poorer-quality shagbarks.

Lucky

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
Hilborn.E@epamail.epa.gov
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:47 PM
To: North American Fruit Explorers
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Good article on Hickories


Thanks Lucky!  I had never realized that pignut and mockernut hickories
were edible.  I just planted some of John Brittain's grafted shagbarks
this spring.  Wish me luck getting them established. I find grafted nut
trees difficult to grow on my dry uplands as they are such water hogs.

Betsy Hilborn
7a Central NC

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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:29:58 -0500
From: mIEKAL aND <qazingulaza@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Hickories
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    <AANLkTinvhBu+qygNHRULx6iyEo2cr9=rvQuvp4TxxX6E@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

What's the zone hardiness of Shellbark Hickories?

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Dr. Lucky Pittman
<lucky.pittman@murraystate.edu> wrote:
> Betsy,
> Mockernut(C.tomentosa) and some Pignut(C.glabra) hickories are edible - and
> quite tasty; mockernuts have a strong hickory flavor, rivaling black walnut
> in flavor intensity.
> Problem with them is that the thickness of the shell and the prominent
> ridges of the internal shell structure tends to trap the kernel, precluding
> you being able to extract much more than tiny little kernel fragments.
> There are occasional trees, however, if you'll sample the nuts, that do
> crack out reasonably well - but I've never come across a mockernut that
> cracks out as well as even the poorest shagbark.
> I've got one tree on the farm here that I'd once thought was a hybrid
> between shagbark and mockernut - but is probably C.ovalis, red hickory -
> cracks out better than some poorer-quality shagbarks.
>
> Lucky


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:43:55 -0400
From: Douglas Woodard <dwoodard@becon.org>
Subject: [NAFEX] Cold-hardiness components
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <4D94E78B.7040505@becon.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

For your information,  a couple of posts from the grapebreeders list.

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada

*****

Probably one of the best conceptual outlines of plant cold hardiness was
published by Stushnoff many years ago*. "Hardiness" is described as
having a number of components, which can vary independently among
different genotypes:  The TIMING of the acquisition of cold hardiness in
the Fall, the RATE at which hardiness is acquired, the ultimate DEGREE
of midwinter cold hardiness, the RESISTANCE TO DEHARDENING in response
to midwinter warm spells, the ability to REGAIN cold hardiness if in
fact dehardening does occurs, the TIMING and RATE of loss of cold
hardiness in the spring.  This helps to explain why a particular
genotype may prove "hardy" in one location and "nonhardy" in another,
even though the midwinter minimums may be similar.  Hope this is clear.

- pp

*Breeding and Selection Methods for Cold Hardiness in Deciduous Fruit
Crops.  Hortscience, 7(1): 10-13.  1972.

*****

No doubt about it - cold hardiness is a very complex trait.

In fact, even at the phenotypic level it is complex; really it is a
collection of traits including acclimation, dormancy, etc.

There are 100's if not 1000's of genes involved here.

That type of trait is called quantitative, as opposed to the Mendalian
dominant-recessive model.  And the genetic loci involved are called
QTL's, for Quantitative Trait Loci.

You have intra & extra-cellular water movement, cryoprotectant
molecules, signaling molecules (ex. abscisic acid (ABA)), etc.

So the basic rule to use in hardy breeding is to use at least one hardy
parent if you want hardy seedlings......................

MH


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:50:19 -0500
From: "Dr. Lucky Pittman" <lucky.pittman@murraystate.edu>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Hickories
To: "'North American Fruit Explorers'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4d94e910.a559e60a.115a.398a@mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

What's the zone hardiness of Shellbark Hickories?

Something in the back of my brain was saying zone 5 for shellbark, zone
4(maybe 3?) for shagbark - but I could be wrong.

Info here, with maps of native range.
Shellbark hickory:
http://www.floridata.com/ref/c/cary_lac.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carya_laciniosa_map.png

Shagbark hickory:
http://www.floridata.com/ref/c/cary_ova.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Range_shagbark_hickory.jpg




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:13:11 -0500
From: mIEKAL aND <qazingulaza@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Hickories
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    <AANLkTim19V+oDSOR1JJYRp-r-LjjTSgTu9o1qFTiZw9d@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Shagbarks & Pignuts grow everywhere here in zone 4 Wisconsin.
Wondering if Shellbarks will...

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Dr. Lucky Pittman
<lucky.pittman@murraystate.edu> wrote:
> What's the zone hardiness of Shellbark Hickories?
>
> Something in the back of my brain was saying zone 5 for shellbark, zone
> 4(maybe 3?) for shagbark - but I could be wrong.
>
> Info here, with maps of native range.
> Shellbark hickory:
> http://www.floridata.com/ref/c/cary_lac.cfm
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carya_laciniosa_map.png
>
> Shagbark hickory:
> http://www.floridata.com/ref/c/cary_ova.cfm
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Range_shagbark_hickory.jpg
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:21:34 -0500
From: "Dr. Lucky Pittman" <lucky.pittman@murraystate.edu>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Hickories
To: "'North American Fruit Explorers'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4d94f061.1836640a.2948.5e5f@mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"


Shagbarks & Pignuts grow everywhere here in zone 4 Wisconsin.
Wondering if Shellbarks will...

I don't know - the USDA Silvics map show shellbark in the southern tiers of
counties in MI, IA, about mid-state IL, and northern IN - but none in WI. 
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=CALA21

I suppose that if you could get some seednuts or seedlings from far-northern
origin trees, they'd be your best bet.  





------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 17:43:40 -0500
From: Alan Haigh <alandhaigh@gmail.com>
Subject: [NAFEX] fertilizing peaches etc.
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
    <AANLkTik_Wf9gzjPhq+SgxdZwgGs-t90d-RPFXDvEHZK9@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Jim, mulching with leaves annually is certainly a form of fertilization.
Surprisingly even straight wood chips will greatly increase N content of
soil over time, apparently by way of N fixing bacteria according to some
study I read about recently.  I've actually over-stimulated peaches by
annual mulching after several years of it, but this was mostly horse stable
waste.  If you're getting an adequate amount of 12 to 16 inch or longer
annual shoots the trees are plenty juiced.

Anton, I manage peach trees to get annual wood off of much older wood as
much as possible.  If I relied primarily on 2 year wood holding one year
wood it would be  harder to keep the trees from getting away from me.  Of
course, I have to be sure to have adequate fruiting wood one way or
another.  That Israeli method sounds completely insane.  I've found headed
peach trees often never come back but I've never tried heading them during
the growing season.


------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 17:40:30 -0700
From: "alden@waldenwinds.com" <alden@waldenwinds.com>
Subject: [NAFEX] blackberry trial report
To: <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <7648f3bf$3b9a681b$5f5fb2d1$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="iso-8859-1"

http://capitalhort.cas.psu.edu/ResearchThings/BlackberryTalk.pdf

is a 2006 report from Penn State.
They grew-out 13 different cultivars of blackberry.   Thorny, Smooth, 
Primocane.
And the winner is....   Cacanska.   Produced 3x as much fruit as some other 
better-known ones.

Thornless: . Apache
. Cacanska .    Doyle's Thornless . Navaho . Ouachita(2) . TripleCrown
Primocane Bearing: . PrimeJan(2) . PrimeJim(2)
(both are thorny)

I only count 8 varieties....I guess they counted some varieties twice to get 
thirteen.
Charlie Paradise, Massachusetts


------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 21:36:47 -0400
From: Don Yellman <don.yellman@webformation.com>
Subject: [NAFEX] Stinkbugs Defeat Apple Bags
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <4D952C2F.1010204@webformation.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

1.  At the risk of stinkbug overload after previous coverage of this 
topic, there is one more feature of these insects that I think is worth 
mentioning.  Unlike any other insect I have seen, the stinkbug is 
capable of penetrating the plastic sandwich bags that many of us use for 
protecting apples.

2.  Apparently, the brown marmorated stinkbug has a feeding tube that is 
long and sharp enough to puncture plastic and continue on into the flesh 
of apples.  The result is to alter and discolor the cells of the apple 
down to a depth of one-half inch or more below the skin.  Damage is 
usually so extensive, that ripe apples are rendered practically useless 
for anything but cider.  Certainly they would not be marketable, 
although the home grower can cut off much of the apple and still wind up 
with something to eat.  The condition under the skin resembles what I 
have always (perhaps mistakenly) called corky spot.  I have always 
believed this was caused by calcium deficiency, but it may have been 
stinkbugs all along.

3.  Because the 2010 season was the first that I have noticed such an 
infestation of these insects (though they may have been present in 
smaller numbers before), and even though I knew they were present on the 
trees, I never saw one in an apple bag and was confident the bags would 
protect the apples just as they do from other insects.  The stinkbug 
seems to be  a warm-weather insect, and didn't really get going until 
August into September here.  Earlier apple varieties like Yellow 
Transparent escaped damage completely, but the midseason and later 
apples were devastated.  No problems were observed on peaches, plums or 
apricots, most of which are down before mid-August.  The best and most 
beautiful of the apples, such as Goldrush, Fuji, Pink Lady, Ashmead's, 
Albemarle  Pippin, Blushing Golden, etc. were practically ruined.  
Meanwhile, the stinkbugs were also attacking crops like tomatoes and 
peppers, leaving telltale areas of white cells beneath the skin.  It 
seems that as soon as sugar begins to show up in a fruit or vegetable, 
and the weather is warm, the stinkbug is waiting.

4.  I am preparing apple bags for this season now, but I am clearly 
going to have to take additional measures to keep this from happening 
again.  Permethrin seems to knock down the stinkbug pretty well, 
although it seems hard to kill with other insecticides.  I am prepared 
to spray the trees with bagged apples, but this strategy will work only 
if an insecticide has a residual effect on the stinkbug.  I seem to 
recall that Alan had observed little residual effect in his efforts to 
control this insect.  If he is right, as he frequently is, I really 
don't what I would do next.  Until USDA or someone comes up with a 
solution to this infestation, I will be experimenting and looking for an 
insecticide that would give me some extended protection without having 
to spray 2-3 times a week.

5.  We have watched stinkbugs emerge around the house, greenhouse, and 
even garage all winter long on sunny days, so they are certainly not 
gone.  I don't understand their life cycle or reproductive habits well 
enough to know the signs of trouble for next season.  Certainly, this 
stinkbug is different, and far more numerous and aggressive than others 
of this species that I have seen before.

6.  As a hobby grower, this is not an issue that affects my livelihood, 
but I surely sympathize with the commercial growers that still survive 
in the MD/VA area and along the east coast.  Not to mention Alan Haigh, 
whose business is fruit tree care.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA


------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 22:36:39 -0400
From: "Ginda Fisher" <list@ginda.us>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] blackberry trial report
To: " North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <20110401023645.DB5344C016@lists.ibiblio.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Mar 31, 2011 8:40 PM, alden@waldenwinds.com &lt;alden@waldenwinds.com&gt; 
wrote: 

http://capitalhort.cas.psu.edu/ResearchThings/BlackberryTalk.pdf


Thornless: . Apache

. Cacanska .    Doyle's Thornless . Navaho . Ouachita(2) . TripleCrown

Primocane Bearing: . PrimeJan(2) . PrimeJim(2)

(both are thorny)



I only count 8 varieties....I guess they counted some varieties twice to get 
thirteen.

Charlie Paradise, Massachusetts

__________________

On the next page they list 5 more thorny blackberries:
Chickasaw, fort kent king, illini hardy, kiowa, and shawnee.


------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 22:42:01 -0400
From: Scott Smith <scott@cs.jhu.edu>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Stinkbugs Defeat Apple Bags
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <2BE29606-F216-4835-9EF0-44189668214E@cs.jhu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Thats bad to hear bagging doesn't work.  I had only minor problems last year 
with stink bugs but am concerned my population has built up for this year.  I 
had good luck limiting the early stink bug damage on my peaches by spraying 
with 
Surround - like the curculio they don't seem to like walking on it at all.  
If I 
see more of them this year I plan on keeping up the Surround coverage all 
summer 
instead of just in the spring. 

Scott

On Mar 31, 2011, at 9:36 PM, Don Yellman wrote:

> 1.  At the risk of stinkbug overload after previous coverage of this topic, 
there is one more feature of these insects that I think is worth mentioning.  
Unlike any other insect I have seen, the stinkbug is capable of penetrating 
the 
plastic sandwich bags that many of us use for protecting apples.
> 
> 2.  Apparently, the brown marmorated stinkbug has a feeding tube that is 
> long 
and sharp enough to puncture plastic and continue on into the flesh of 
apples.  
The result is to alter and discolor the cells of the apple down to a depth of 
one-half inch or more below the skin.  Damage is usually so extensive, that 
ripe 
apples are rendered practically useless for anything but cider.  Certainly 
they 
would not be marketable, although the home grower can cut off much of the 
apple 
and still wind up with something to eat.  The condition under the skin 
resembles 
what I have always (perhaps mistakenly) called corky spot.  I have always 
believed this was caused by calcium deficiency, but it may have been 
stinkbugs 
all along.
> 
> 3.  Because the 2010 season was the first that I have noticed such an 
infestation of these insects (though they may have been present in smaller 
numbers before), and even though I knew they were present on the trees, I 
never 
saw one in an apple bag and was confident the bags would protect the apples 
just 
as they do from other insects.  The stinkbug seems to be  a warm-weather 
insect, 
and didn't really get going until August into September here.  Earlier apple 
varieties like Yellow Transparent escaped damage completely, but the 
midseason 
and later apples were devastated.  No problems were observed on peaches, 
plums 
or apricots, most of which are down before mid-August.  The best and most 
beautiful of the apples, such as Goldrush, Fuji, Pink Lady, Ashmead's, 
Albemarle  
Pippin, Blushing Golden, etc. were practically ruined.  Meanwhile, the 
stinkbugs 
were also attacking crops like tomatoes and peppers, leaving telltale areas 
of 
white cells beneath the skin.  It seems that as so
 on as sugar begins to show up in a fruit or vegetable, and the weather is 
warm, 
the stinkbug is waiting.
> 
> 4.  I am preparing apple bags for this season now, but I am clearly going 
> to 
have to take additional measures to keep this from happening again.  
Permethrin 
seems to knock down the stinkbug pretty well, although it seems hard to kill 
with other insecticides.  I am prepared to spray the trees with bagged 
apples, 
but this strategy will work only if an insecticide has a residual effect on 
the 
stinkbug.  I seem to recall that Alan had observed little residual effect in 
his 
efforts to control this insect.  If he is right, as he frequently is, I 
really 
don't what I would do next.  Until USDA or someone comes up with a solution 
to 
this infestation, I will be experimenting and looking for an insecticide that 
would give me some extended protection without having to spray 2-3 times a 
week.
> 
> 5.  We have watched stinkbugs emerge around the house, greenhouse, and even 
garage all winter long on sunny days, so they are certainly not gone.  I 
don't 
understand their life cycle or reproductive habits well enough to know the 
signs 
of trouble for next season.  Certainly, this stinkbug is different, and far 
more 
numerous and aggressive than others of this species that I have seen before.
> 
> 6.  As a hobby grower, this is not an issue that affects my livelihood, but 
> I 
surely sympathize with the commercial growers that still survive in the MD/VA 
area and along the east coast.  Not to mention Alan Haigh, whose business is 
fruit tree care.
> 
> Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
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------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 03:09:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven Covacci <filtertitle@aol.com>
Subject: [NAFEX] Looking for recommendation for CORNELIAN CHERRY
    (Cornus mas), and/or scionwood or nursery source.
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <8CDBE52D224DC6F-1E74-82B3@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Group: 


CORNELIAN CHERRY [C. mas] - 


I'm looking for a recommendation for a cultivar (selected for edibility) for 
cornelian cherry dogwood (Cornus mas); and perhaps scionwood or a nursery 
that 
carries the cultivar.


Some of said 'Flava' (yellow fruit) is good; I read of a supposedly 
outstanding 
'Kazlan', but not available in the US to my knowledge; I heard 'Black Plum' 
tastes like a plum as per the name lol; I'm thinking about going with 'Red 
Star'.


The cornelian cherries I've tasted in parks have tasted like a cranberry - 
not 
impressed at all; yet, a friend describes them to me as delicious, so I'm 
looking for a great-flavored cultivar.


If you have scionwood, that would be greatly appreciated, but I'd rather get 
one 
on it's roots already started from a nursery since I'm in a rush to get fruit.


Thanks,
Steve





------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 03:12:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven Covacci <filtertitle@aol.com>
Subject: [NAFEX] Looking for native edibles scionwood..
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <8CDBE5345BDA26F-1E74-8324@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Group:


Would anyone make available to me scionwoood for any of these:


*Cultivars of Prunus maritima, P. americana, P. munsoniana, or P. angustifolia
*Cultivars of Amelanchier obovalis, A. stolonifera, or A. laevis
*Fragaria vesca (US subspecies)
*Rubus spp. strigosus (US subspecies)
*Malus coronaria


Thanks,


Steve NJ 6b/7a






------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 00:31:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: John S <swim_at_svc@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Looking for recommendation for CORNELIAN CHERRY
    (Cornus    mas), and/or scionwood or nursery source.
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <432868.15760.qm@web110215.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Steven,? The best I've tried is Elegant. Consistently better tasting fruit.? 
Yellow is also good but smaller fruit.? Pioneer probably has the best tasting 
ones, but has a consistency issue and needs to be dead ripe before it gets 
good.? Elegant seems to be more delicate than the others mentioned and I have 
lost several trees of it.? Pioneer has never produced a lot of fruit for me, 
just a few.

Go with at least two varieties for pollination and max production.? 



--- On Fri, 4/1/11, Steven Covacci <filtertitle@aol.com> wrote:

From: Steven Covacci <filtertitle@aol.com>
Subject: [NAFEX] Looking for recommendation for CORNELIAN CHERRY (Cornus 
mas), 
and/or scionwood or nursery source.
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 3:09 AM

Group: 


CORNELIAN CHERRY [C. mas] - 


I'm looking for a recommendation for a cultivar (selected for edibility) for 
cornelian cherry dogwood (Cornus mas); and perhaps scionwood or a nursery 
that 
carries the cultivar.


Some of said 'Flava' (yellow fruit) is good; I read of a supposedly 
outstanding 
'Kazlan', but not available in the US to my knowledge; I heard 'Black Plum' 
tastes like a plum as per the name lol; I'm thinking about going with 'Red 
Star'.


The cornelian cherries I've tasted in parks have tasted like a cranberry - 
not 
impressed at all; yet, a friend describes them to me as delicious, so I'm 
looking for a great-flavored cultivar.


If you have scionwood, that would be greatly appreciated, but I'd rather get 
one 
on it's roots already started from a nursery since I'm in a rush to get fruit.


Thanks,
Steve



__________________
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nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
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the list here:
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------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 18:48:15 +1100
From: Anne Seymour <aseymour@tpg.com.au>
Subject: [NAFEX] Blueberries and ph
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <F80DDD6B-3559-4C43-8C63-206C6A8853A9@tpg.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi

My teenage son has developed a love of growing things we can eat such as 
watermelon, sweet potatoes, bilberries, etc.  We are now about to buy about 
15 
blueberry trees (probably misty, legacy and magnolia) and wanted to ask 
people's 
thoughts about ph.  I know they love an acid soil around4.5-5.5 but I did 
hear 
that some people on this list had the opinion that they could grow in higher 
ph 
soils if they had lots of compost in the soil.  I will be planting them in 
two 
beds one of which is ph6 and one ph7.  There are a few azaleas and camellias 
happily growing in those beds now.  I have heard contradictory things about 
blueberry requirements.  Some times I read they like sandy, nutrient poor 
soil 
and at other places I have read they love lots of organic material/compost.  

I have a couple of compost bins which have only ever had fruit and vegetable 
scraps thrown in and the bins' ph is 9 so way too high for the blueberries.

The soil in the beds has been undisturbed for at least 30 years since we 
moved 
in.  

I am wondering if I should put in my compost in spite of the high ph in the 
hopes that it will provide lots of organic matter and nutrients and that the 
soil will 'buffer' if back to a lower ph relatively quickly.  

On the other hand perhaps I should keep the compost out as it will just 
increase 
the ph and make my blueberries either die or produce no fruit.  Possibly I 
could 
add lots of dried leaves to lower the compost ph and just use it later as a 
mulch.  

On the 'third hand' I had read the comment I mentioned earlier that they can 
grow, and fruit well, in higher ph soils if there is lots of compost.  
Presumably this means the iron and other nutrients are high enough because of 
the compost to counteract the high ph.

I like to do everything 'organically' without additives or chemicals.  I have 
read that I could just put sulphur, or sulphate of iron or flowers of iron or 
iron chelate (no idea what is the differences between these)  into the soil 
but 
I was desperately hoping I could avoid any of these and just use my soil and 
compost.

I would really appreciate any advice.

Thanks

Anne




------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 07:15:59 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Anton Callaway <marillen@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Fertilizing peaches?
To: nottke1 <nottke1@earthlink.net>,    North American Fruit Explorers
    <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    <33014933.1301656560097.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Jim,

You raise a good point about any gross generalizations.  I'm a big advocate 
of 
"listening to your trees".  If they are growing vigorously, produce well and 
the 
leaves have a healthy green color, you may not need fertilization other than 
that provided by your mulch.

In general, peaches are relatively heavy feeders (say vs. pears), so on my 
soils 
I give them a dose of feather meal, blood meal, calcium nitrate or cottonseed 
meal in the Spring & Fall, but if they're growing well, you may not need any 
of 
that.

Anton
North Carolina piedmont


-----Original Message-----
>From: nottke1 <nottke1@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Mar 31, 2011 6:44 AM
>To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>Subject: [NAFEX]  Fertilizing peaches?
>
>Anton & Alan,
>Do peach trees need fertilization?
>I fertilized my peach trees lightly in the Fall of years 2 & 3 but have not 
fertilized them since they produced their first fruit 12 years ago. They grow 
vigorously, bloom profusely, and I usually thin off 2 or 3 buckets of culls 
per 
tree.  I mulch with oak and hickory leaves each Fall, which I wouldn't 
consider 
to be "fertilizer".  My trees are on a sandy-clay ridgetop 15 miles west of 
Winston-Salem.
>Jim
>====================
>Anton wrote;
>>It's interesting that you mention Fall fertilization.  The fellow I did my 
Master's with, Dr. Gary Couvillon at UGA, did quite a lot of research on the 
effects of Fall fertilization on hardiness and peach tree health.  His 
research 
supported exactly what you said, that fertilizing in the Fall (within limits, 
of 
course) not only did not decrease hardiness, it could even increase winter 
hardiness, presumably by increasing solutes in the buds.  Based on his 
teachings, I've routinely Fall fertilized for the last 30 years, with no ill 
effects.
>>
>>Anton
>>North Carolina
>
>__________________
>nafex mailing list
>nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more 
>about 
the list here:
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>NAFEX web site: http://www.nafex.org/



------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 05:13:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: John S <swim_at_svc@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Blueberries and ph
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <631864.57370.qm@web110212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Others here will surely offer better advice but... 

My early efforts with blueberries many years ago ignored the pH requirement 
and 
resulted in failure.? Now I enjoy success, just by following the simple 
practice 
of adding 1-2" of quality peat moss as a mulch to my blueberries plants each 
spring, which naturally lowers the pH.? I have also played around with 
starting 
blueberry seed and found that the plants do well on a mix of just peat and 
sand 
for years.? A quality fertilizer speeds growth and fruit production.

Prepare your beds by mixing in a generous amount of peat before planting and 
add 
some peat to the surface each year.? They should do well for you just by 
doing 
that.? I would not worry about fertilizing until fruit production begins.



--- On Fri, 4/1/11, Anne Seymour <aseymour@tpg.com.au> wrote:

From: Anne Seymour <aseymour@tpg.com.au>
Subject: [NAFEX] Blueberries and ph
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 3:48 AM

Hi

My teenage son has developed a love of growing things we can eat such as 
watermelon, sweet potatoes, bilberries, etc.? We are now about to buy about 
15 
blueberry trees (probably misty, legacy and magnolia) and wanted to ask 
people's 
thoughts about ph.? I know they love an acid soil around4.5-5.5 but I did 
hear 
that some people on this list had the opinion that they could grow in higher 
ph 
soils if they had lots of compost in the soil.? I will be planting them in 
two 
beds one of which is ph6 and one ph7.? There are a few azaleas and camellias 
happily growing in those beds now.? I have heard contradictory things about 
blueberry requirements.? Some times I read they like sandy, nutrient poor 
soil 
and at other places I have read they love lots of organic material/compost.? 

I have a couple of compost bins which have only ever had fruit and vegetable 
scraps thrown in and the bins' ph is 9 so way too high for the blueberries.

The soil in the beds has been undisturbed for at least 30 years since we 
moved 
in.? 

I am wondering if I should put in my compost in spite of the high ph in the 
hopes that it will provide lots of organic matter and nutrients and that the 
soil will 'buffer' if back to a lower ph relatively quickly.? 

On the other hand perhaps I should keep the compost out as it will just 
increase 
the ph and make my blueberries either die or produce no fruit.? Possibly I 
could 
add lots of dried leaves to lower the compost ph and just use it later as a 
mulch.? 

On the 'third hand' I had read the comment I mentioned earlier that they can 
grow, and fruit well, in higher ph soils if there is lots of compost.? 
Presumably this means the iron and other nutrients are high enough because of 
the compost to counteract the high ph.

I like to do everything 'organically' without additives or chemicals.? I have 
read that I could just put sulphur, or sulphate of iron or flowers of iron or 
iron chelate (no idea what is the differences between these)? into the soil 
but 
I was desperately hoping I could avoid any of these and just use my soil and 
compost.

I would really appreciate any advice.

Thanks

Anne


__________________
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nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more about 
the list here:
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------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 08:00:13 -0500
From: "Ernest Plutko" <ernestplutko@wiktel.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Blueberries and ph
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <380-2201145113013953@wiktel.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Mix peat with your mulch or just use peat.  Don't use any additive
with iron. Iron sulfate will lower the pH for a few years but will
eventually hurt strawberries.  Don't add any other iron compounds. 
Mix peat with sand and use a lot and you will have great
strawberries.  Ernie zone 2/3  

---- Original Message ----
From: aseymour@tpg.com.au
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: RE: [NAFEX] Blueberries and ph
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 18:48:15 +1100

>Hi
>
>My teenage son has developed a love of growing things we can eat such
>as watermelon, sweet potatoes, bilberries, etc.  We are now about to
>buy about 15 blueberry trees (probably misty, legacy and magnolia)
>and wanted to ask people's thoughts about ph.  I know they love an
>acid soil around4.5-5.5 but I did hear that some people on this list
>had the opinion that they could grow in higher ph soils if they had
>lots of compost in the soil.  I will be planting them in two beds one
>of which is ph6 and one ph7.  There are a few azaleas and camellias
>happily growing in those beds now.  I have heard contradictory things
>about blueberry requirements.  Some times I read they like sandy,
>nutrient poor soil and at other places I have read they love lots of
>organic material/compost.  
>
>I have a couple of compost bins which have only ever had fruit and
>vegetable scraps thrown in and the bins' ph is 9 so way too high for
>the blueberries.
>
>The soil in the beds has been undisturbed for at least 30 years since
>we moved in.  
>
>I am wondering if I should put in my compost in spite of the high ph
>in the hopes that it will provide lots of organic matter and
>nutrients and that the soil will 'buffer' if back to a lower ph
>relatively quickly.  
>
>On the other hand perhaps I should keep the compost out as it will
>just increase the ph and make my blueberries either die or produce no
>fruit.  Possibly I could add lots of dried leaves to lower the
>compost ph and just use it later as a mulch.  
>
>On the 'third hand' I had read the comment I mentioned earlier that
>they can grow, and fruit well, in higher ph soils if there is lots of
>compost.  Presumably this means the iron and other nutrients are high
>enough because of the compost to counteract the high ph.
>
>I like to do everything 'organically' without additives or chemicals.
> I have read that I could just put sulphur, or sulphate of iron or
>flowers of iron or iron chelate (no idea what is the differences
>between these)  into the soil but I was desperately hoping I could
>avoid any of these and just use my soil and compost.
>
>I would really appreciate any advice.
>
>Thanks
>
>Anne
>
>
>__________________
>nafex mailing list
>nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out
>more about the list here:
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>NAFEX web site: http://www.nafex.org/




------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:24:12 -0400
From: "Ginda Fisher" <list@ginda.us>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Blueberries and ph
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <20110401132418.C86954C015@lists.ibiblio.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

One warning re peat: it is very slow to wet. So if you are mixing it into 
your 
soil make sure to do this well before planting the blueberries. A week prior 
is 
good.

I have somewhat acid soil and wild blueberries, so when my pH meter didn't 
work 
I figured my pH was okay. My blueberries were very slow to establish, but did 
MUCH better the year after I extended the grass-free strip around them. 
Originally it was only to their expected mature drip line. Now I've mulched 
over 
another 18 inches or more of grass, and they are much happier, with more 
growth 
and more berries.

I mulch every fall with shredded oak leaves. This is as much to get rid of 
the 
leaves on my suburban lawn as anything else, but the blueberries seem very 
happy 
with it. I shred the leaves by using the lawnmower to collect them, so I 
suppose 
there's a little shreded grass in there, too.

-- GindaOn Apr 1, 2011 8:13 AM, John S &lt;swim_at_svc@yahoo.com&gt; wrote: 

Others here will surely offer better advice but... 



My early efforts with blueberries many years ago ignored the pH requirement 
and 
resulted in failure.  Now I enjoy success, just by following the simple 
practice of adding 1-2" of quality peat moss as a mulch to my blueberries 
plants 
each spring, which naturally lowers the pH.  I have also played around with 
starting blueberry seed and found that the plants do well on a mix of just 
peat 
and sand for years.  A quality fertilizer speeds growth and fruit 
production.



Prepare your beds by mixing in a generous amount of peat before planting and 
add 
some peat to the surface each year.  They should do well for you just by 
doing that.  I would not worry about fertilizing until fruit production 
begins.







--- On Fri, 4/1/11, Anne Seymour &lt;aseymour@tpg.com.au&gt; wrote:



From: Anne Seymour &lt;aseymour@tpg.com.au&gt;

Subject: [NAFEX] Blueberries and ph

To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org

Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 3:48 AM



Hi



My teenage son has developed a love of growing things we can eat such as 
watermelon, sweet potatoes, bilberries, etc.  We are now about to buy about 
15 blueberry trees (probably misty, legacy and magnolia) and wanted to ask 
people's thoughts about ph.  I know they love an acid soil around4.5-5.5 
but I did hear that some people on this list had the opinion that they could 
grow in higher ph soils if they had lots of compost in the soil.  I will be 
planting them in two beds one of which is ph6 and one ph7.  There are a few 
azaleas and camellias happily growing in those beds now.  I have heard 
contradictory things about blueberry requirements.  Some times I read they 
like sandy, nutrient poor soil and at other places I have read they love lots 
of 
organic material/compost.  



I have a couple of compost bins which have only ever had fruit and vegetable 
scraps thrown in and the bins' ph is 9 so way too high for the blueberries.



The soil in the beds has been undisturbed for at least 30 years since we 
moved 
in.  



I am wondering if I should put in my compost in spite of the high ph in the 
hopes that it will provide lots of organic matter and nutrients and that the 
soil will 'buffer' if back to a lower ph relatively quickly.  



On the other hand perhaps I should keep the compost out as it will just 
increase 
the ph and make my blueberries either die or produce no fruit.  Possibly I 
could add lots of dried leaves to lower the compost ph and just use it later 
as 
a mulch.  



On the 'third hand' I had read the comment I mentioned earlier that they can 
grow, and fruit well, in higher ph soils if there is lots of compost.  
Presumably this means the iron and other nutrients are high enough because of 
the compost to counteract the high ph.



I like to do everything 'organically' without additives or chemicals.  I 
have read that I could just put sulphur, or sulphate of iron or flowers of 
iron 
or iron chelate (no idea what is the differences between these)  into the 
soil but I was desperately hoping I could avoid any of these and just use my 
soil and compost.



I would really appreciate any advice.



Thanks



Anne





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the list here:

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------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:18:31 -0500
From: "Kieran &/or Donna" <holycow@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Pear rootstock availability?
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <8C12B8D2328B478CA79A245B1F8B4596@computer>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=original

Bradford pears are calleryana, if you can find some cheap they would do, or 
go dig some where they have come up from the ornamental seeds.  Calleryana 
makes a taproot and doesn't like to lose it, so don't tackle a plant too big 
unless you are willing to either dig to China or put up with reduced growth 
for a year or two.  I could go around town and collect as many rootstocks as 
you want, so I'm sure you can too.  Even now, with them leafed out, you'll 
be cutting the top right off to graft so don't have to worry too much about 
the time of year.  Donna, Cookeville TN 



------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 17:33:40 -0400
From: Ginda Fisher <list@ginda.us>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Looking for recommendation for CORNELIAN CHERRY
    (Cornus    mas), and/or scionwood or nursery source.
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <10B7A677-28A7-4AB7-B712-658B895DD732@ginda.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On Apr 1, 2011, at 3:09 AM, Steven Covacci wrote:

> Group: 
> 
> 
> CORNELIAN CHERRY [C. mas] - 
> 
> 
> I'm looking for a recommendation for a cultivar (selected for edibility) 
> for 
cornelian cherry dogwood (Cornus mas); and perhaps scionwood or a nursery 
that 
carries the cultivar.
> 

I have three C. mas, Jolico, Elegant, and something else whose name tag is 
currently buried in the snow.  One of these (not Jolico) has fruited.  I 
thought 
it was delicious.  It was tasty but extremely sour when red and firm, and 
sweeter and less sour and more richly flavored when it got soft.

It took several years for the trees to fruit, and the one that finally did 
fruit 
two years ago decided not to this year.  I think one of the others had female 
flowers last year, and might even have set a fruit or two, but if it did it 
dropped them early in the season.  So in my experience, this crop takes a lot 
of 
patience.

Mine are growing in the shade, though, so perhaps you'd get fruit faster in 
the 
sun.

Ginda
Eastern MA, zone 6







------------------------------

Message: 25
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 08:33:19 -0600
From: Christopher Kennel <ckennel@gmail.com>
Subject: [NAFEX] Grape trellis spans
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    <AANLkTi=LHN2P+KDM4v=w10LbsDeNksygwGU1jj5_98TG@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I plan to install a 55 foot long Geneva double curtain trellis for table
grapes this spring and want to minimize the number of intermediate/middle
posts I use.  Provided my end post bracing system is strong enough, can I do
the entire span with only my end posts?  I'll be using 12.5 gauge high
tensile wire with gripples and can easily double or triple up the wires to
strengthen the system if necessary.

Thanks,
Chris Kennel
Denver, CO
zone 5


------------------------------

Message: 26
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 18:13:22 -0400
From: Ginda Fisher <list@ginda.us>
Subject: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel size?
To: NAFEX Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <41021E7A-FAA6-4425-866C-4564CABFB668@ginda.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

So, after all the glowing recommendations of Carmine Jewel, I bought some 
this 
winter, and I expect them to arrive soon.  Any idea how big they get when 
mature?  I guess I'm especially interested in how wide they get, and how 
close I 
can plant them to other stuff, like my back door and my tomato pots.

Thanks,
Ginda
Eastern MA, zone 6







------------------------------

Message: 27
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 15:54:25 -0400
From: Hilborn.E@epamail.epa.gov
Subject: [NAFEX] Cold-hardiness components - kiwi and other victims in
    central NC
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    
<OF4DDCCF70.D9A0A9E8-ON85257865.0066A2AA-85257865.006D5A67@epamail.epa.gov>
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

I am having a bad fruit week. Some background - we have had a really
warm late winter/ early spring. We have had no frost for weeks, with a
few sunny days even reaching the mid 80s (F). However, this week we had
a freeze to 27 degrees F at my house on Tuesday AM.

 Now, I did have a forecast to tell me it was coming. I dutifully went
out and covered my kiwi vines which are in their third spring at my
site. Both hardy and fuzzy kiwi had started leafing out in the
unseasonable warmth. My first action was to disconnect supports and to
try to lay them down on the ground, no, too woody. I managed to bend
primary cordons somewhat closer to the center of each plant.  I covered
the plants with heavy cloth or plastic  tarps to the ground. Sealed the
edges of the covers with clothespins, sealed the tarp to the ground with
hay, I also put multiple buckets of water under each tarp.  With kiwis
that were close to large wooden uprights of the trellis, I tried to make
bundles of wood and plant material under each tarp with water buckets in
the center of the protected space near the main 'trunks'.

The next morning after the temperature had increased to near 40 degrees,
I uncovered and inspected.

The few kiwis buds that were still pretty tight seemed OK, as were the
partially opened buds within 2 feet of the ground (each male). The hardy
varieties had leafed out with about an inch of vigorous growth and all
the foliage was limp and rapidly turning black when I lifted the cover.
I am not sure how much damage was due to my plastic tarp covering one
plant as the air was hot under the tarp as I opened it, the cloth covers
apparently did not retain heat as the rising sun hit the covers.  The
one bright spot was about 5 buds and leaf clusters of the older female
that survived the freeze seemingly unaffected as the leaves were laying
flat with direct ground contact under the tarp.

As I toured the orchard to inspect uncovered plants I noticed that the
pomegranate had started leafing out with tender material less than 1/4
". All burned crispy. The blueberries in full (mostly closed) flowers
and small leaves seemed OK, the apples and pears ranged from slightly
opening leaf and flower buds to new leaves and small, set fruit - all
seemed OK although I noticed the edges of some fully open apple blossoms
were brown.  New blackberry leaves also seemed OK. My Nanking cherries
in flower and with small fruit looked a little burned but may be OK.   I
will watch and see what the longer term consequences are. I am amazed to
see some unexpected sights, my emerging asparagus that was covered had
transparent shoots Tuesday AM, they looked heavily damaged. I viewed
them last evening and they seemed for the most part to be recovering!
They were more opaque with no signs of necrosis. I will watch to see if
they leaf out normally.

This AM, I awoke to ice on the cars despite overnight lows forecast in
the high 30s. My thermometer said 37 F before dawn!  I did not cover
anything. I am afraid to go look at the few kiwi leaves that survived
Tuesday AM.

Betsy Hilborn
7a Central NC






------------------------------

Message: 28
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 21:26:55 -0400
From: Amelia Hayner <abhayner@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Cold-hardiness components - kiwi and other
    victims in central NC
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    <AANLkTi=pzHjuAh5MiShYnLswz=+=8DJonUhx3orqRuZB@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I feel your pain.
my kiwis are limp, slimy and black.
they had put out new growth about 4" long. They are in somewhat protected
spot, semi-shaded-; didn't matter, frost got em anyway.
however.. I did see one small new bud of leaves opening near ground- so I
hope the plant itself survives.
Amy
z 8a-7b, near VA line, in northeastern NC

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 3:54 PM, <Hilborn.E@epamail.epa.gov> wrote:

> I am having a bad fruit week. Some background - we have had a really
> warm late winter/ early spring. We have had no frost for weeks, with a
> few sunny days even reaching the mid 80s (F). However, this week we had
> a freeze to 27 degrees F at my house on Tuesday AM.
>
>  Now, I did have a forecast to tell me it was coming. I dutifully went
> out and covered my kiwi vines which are in their third spring at my
> site. Both hardy and fuzzy kiwi had started leafing out in the
> unseasonable warmth. My first action was to disconnect supports and to
> try to lay them down on the ground, no, too woody. I managed to bend
> primary cordons somewhat closer to the center of each plant.  I covered
> the plants with heavy cloth or plastic  tarps to the ground. Sealed the
> edges of the covers with clothespins, sealed the tarp to the ground with
> hay, I also put multiple buckets of water under each tarp.  With kiwis
> that were close to large wooden uprights of the trellis, I tried to make
> bundles of wood and plant material under each tarp with water buckets in
> the center of the protected space near the main 'trunks'.
>
> The next morning after the temperature had increased to near 40 degrees,
> I uncovered and inspected.
>
> The few kiwis buds that were still pretty tight seemed OK, as were the
> partially opened buds within 2 feet of the ground (each male). The hardy
> varieties had leafed out with about an inch of vigorous growth and all
> the foliage was limp and rapidly turning black when I lifted the cover.
> I am not sure how much damage was due to my plastic tarp covering one
> plant as the air was hot under the tarp as I opened it, the cloth covers
> apparently did not retain heat as the rising sun hit the covers.  The
> one bright spot was about 5 buds and leaf clusters of the older female
> that survived the freeze seemingly unaffected as the leaves were laying
> flat with direct ground contact under the tarp.
>
> As I toured the orchard to inspect uncovered plants I noticed that the
> pomegranate had started leafing out with tender material less than 1/4
> ". All burned crispy. The blueberries in full (mostly closed) flowers
> and small leaves seemed OK, the apples and pears ranged from slightly
> opening leaf and flower buds to new leaves and small, set fruit - all
> seemed OK although I noticed the edges of some fully open apple blossoms
> were brown.  New blackberry leaves also seemed OK. My Nanking cherries
> in flower and with small fruit looked a little burned but may be OK.   I
> will watch and see what the longer term consequences are. I am amazed to
> see some unexpected sights, my emerging asparagus that was covered had
> transparent shoots Tuesday AM, they looked heavily damaged. I viewed
> them last evening and they seemed for the most part to be recovering!
> They were more opaque with no signs of necrosis. I will watch to see if
> they leaf out normally.
>
> This AM, I awoke to ice on the cars despite overnight lows forecast in
> the high 30s. My thermometer said 37 F before dawn!  I did not cover
> anything. I am afraid to go look at the few kiwi leaves that survived
> Tuesday AM.
>
> Betsy Hilborn
> 7a Central NC
>
>
>
>
> __________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more
> about the list here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> NAFEX web site: http://www.nafex.org/
>


------------------------------

Message: 29
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 22:54:37 -0600
From: Bob Bors <bob.bors@usask.ca>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel size?
To: 'North American Fruit Explorers' <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <000001cbf0f2$11c66e40$35534ac0$@usask.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

In Saskatchewan they are 6 to 8 feet tall and start producing when around 4
or 5ft.  For us that is about 4 years under ideal conditions.
We have only 100 frost free days. Once they come into heavy production they
only get a few inches taller each year.
You are 4 hardiness zones warmer. Maybe they will grow faster and taller for
you? Hopefully they will be adapted to your region.
They've only been widely tested in zones 2 or 3 (Canada Zones), and we don't
know how far south they can be grown. 

Bob Bors
U of Sask.

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher
Sent: April-01-11 4:13 PM
To: NAFEX Fruit Explorers
Subject: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel size?

So, after all the glowing recommendations of Carmine Jewel, I bought some
this winter, and I expect them to arrive soon.  Any idea how big they get
when mature?  I guess I'm especially interested in how wide they get, and
how close I can plant them to other stuff, like my back door and my tomato
pots.

Thanks,
Ginda
Eastern MA, zone 6





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------------------------------

Message: 30
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 08:32:31 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: Anton Callaway <marillen@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel size?
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
    
<23374555.1301747551485.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Bob,

For what it's worth, I've got one that's two years old here in Zone 8 in 
central 
North Carolina.  I has shown little sign of disease. It is growing slowly and 
has not yet bloomed.  It's about 102 cm (40 inches) tall now.  It was about 
13 
centimeters tall when I planted it.

Anton


-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob Bors <bob.bors@usask.ca>
>Sent: Apr 2, 2011 12:54 AM
>To: 'North American Fruit Explorers' <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel size?
>
>In Saskatchewan they are 6 to 8 feet tall and start producing when around 4
>or 5ft.  For us that is about 4 years under ideal conditions.
>We have only 100 frost free days. Once they come into heavy production they
>only get a few inches taller each year.
>You are 4 hardiness zones warmer. Maybe they will grow faster and taller for
>you? Hopefully they will be adapted to your region.
>They've only been widely tested in zones 2 or 3 (Canada Zones), and we don't
>know how far south they can be grown. 
>
>Bob Bors
>U of Sask.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
>[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher
>Sent: April-01-11 4:13 PM
>To: NAFEX Fruit Explorers
>Subject: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel size?
>
>So, after all the glowing recommendations of Carmine Jewel, I bought some
>this winter, and I expect them to arrive soon.  Any idea how big they get
>when mature?  I guess I'm especially interested in how wide they get, and
>how close I can plant them to other stuff, like my back door and my tomato
>pots.
>
>Thanks,
>Ginda
>Eastern MA, zone 6
>
>
>
>
>
>__________________
>nafex mailing list 
>nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more
>about the list here:
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
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>
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------------------------------

Message: 31
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 09:04:35 -0400
From: Ginda Fisher <list@ginda.us>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel size?
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <932DC588-9157-46DE-9EE6-C2B63DC7F74E@ginda.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Thanks, both of you.  I am more interested in width than height.  Any 
comments?

thanks,
Ginda

On Apr 2, 2011, at 8:32 AM, Anton Callaway wrote:

> Bob,
> 
> For what it's worth, I've got one that's two years old here in Zone 8 in 
central North Carolina.  I has shown little sign of disease. It is growing 
slowly and has not yet bloomed.  It's about 102 cm (40 inches) tall now.  It 
was 
about 13 centimeters tall when I planted it.
> 
> Anton
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bob Bors <bob.bors@usask.ca>
>> Sent: Apr 2, 2011 12:54 AM
>> To: 'North American Fruit Explorers' <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel size?
>> 
>> In Saskatchewan they are 6 to 8 feet tall and start producing when around 4
>> or 5ft.  For us that is about 4 years under ideal conditions.
>> We have only 100 frost free days. Once they come into heavy production they
>> only get a few inches taller each year.
>> You are 4 hardiness zones warmer. Maybe they will grow faster and taller 
>> for
>> you? Hopefully they will be adapted to your region.
>> They've only been widely tested in zones 2 or 3 (Canada Zones), and we 
>> don't
>> know how far south they can be grown. 
>> 
>> Bob Bors
>> U of Sask.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
>> [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher
>> Sent: April-01-11 4:13 PM
>> To: NAFEX Fruit Explorers
>> Subject: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel size?
>> 
>> So, after all the glowing recommendations of Carmine Jewel, I bought some
>> this winter, and I expect them to arrive soon.  Any idea how big they get
>> when mature?  I guess I'm especially interested in how wide they get, and
>> how close I can plant them to other stuff, like my back door and my tomato
>> pots.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Ginda
>> Eastern MA, zone 6
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __________________
>> nafex mailing list 
>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more
>> about the list here:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>> NAFEX web site: http://www.nafex.org/
>> 
>> __________________
>> nafex mailing list 
>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subscribe, unsubscribe, change your user configuration or find out more 
>> about 
the list here:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>> NAFEX web site: http://www.nafex.org/
> 
> __________________
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> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
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the list here:
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------------------------------

Message: 32
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 10:37:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: jerrydana5@aol.com
Subject: [NAFEX] apple variety recommendations
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <8CDBF5AA2B7E5E2-1E4C-6069@webmail-d148.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I would be interested in recommendations for apple varities for southern 
Indiana.  Best possibilities for sauce and cider and cooking?  We like tart.  
Jerry in southern Indiana




------------------------------

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End of nafex Digest, Vol 99, Issue 1
************************************


 
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