North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Kevin Moore <aleguy33@yahoo.com>]

I believe we can support the entire population of the world at a much higher standard of living if we eliminate fossil carbon emissions. I also believe that as the world standard of living increases, population will decline as it has in western Europe, and the U.S. The only reason U.S population grows is because of immigration. The carrying capacity of the planet can be vastly increased with intelligent design and the implementation of permaculture concepts in every aspect of human endeavor. Even India and China could potentially support ten times as many people at a higher standard of living than the population of the U.S. currently enjoys.

---

From: John S <swim_at_svc@yahoo.com>
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2009 12:50:08 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] global warming........an observation that has nothingto do with science....

Do you think that the entire population of the world could be supported at our current standard of living?  What about 20 years from now when the population has doubled one or more times?  There have to be limits and the larger the population when a limit is hit and something breaks, the greater the disaster.



--- On Sat, 6/6/09, Kevin Moore <aleguy33@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Kevin Moore <aleguy33@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] global warming........an observation that has nothingto do with science....
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Saturday, June 6, 2009, 1:38 PM

I'm aware that other changes occur along with global warming that threaten many forms of life. I must take issue however with the assumption that a reduction in carbon emissions means reducing either our standard of living, or our population. As I'm sure you are aware, increasing standards of living go hand in hand with declining populations. (Chicken and egg thing.) We have many viable options for eliminating fossil carbon emissions while increasing our standard of living manyfold. The simple fact that we would not be shipping $70 billion a year in American treasure to oil rich nations that fund terrorist operations in the middle east would immediately increase our overall prosperity.

---

From: John S <swim_at_svc@yahoo..com>
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, June 5, 2009 2:39:35 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] global warming........an observation that has nothingto do with science....

Kevin,  You may find it interesting to seek out a recent Scientific American article linking massive species die-out events to unusually high levels of carbon dioxide.  IF I recall correctly, the carbon dioxide levels encourage massive shifts in the algal/bacterial populations favoring ones that release sulfur dioxide in extreme amounts, which is toxic to much of the life on the planet.  The article sites locations and current events where this has happened on a smaller scale in recent years.

For me, the issue is not how much gas our cars use or anything like that.  It is that population has been growing unchecked.  We all work with bio systems in some way and should have first hand experience with out of control populations and what happens as a result..  It is impossible to deal with the carbon issue without reducing our standards of living OR reducing our population.  I do not think either of these problems is solvable under current conditions.

...And, I think this issue has everything to do with science.
John

PS  Fluffy, we too love your posts.  We are just asking that you don't 'hit' us when visiting the sandbox we play in...



--- On Fri, 6/5/09, Kevin Moore <aleguy33@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Kevin Moore <aleguy33@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] global warming........an observation that has nothingto do with science....
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 3:03 PM

With apologies to those of you who fail to take global warming seriously, the fact is it has a lot of us scared witless. Now that the "carbon time bomb" has started going off, we realize that we are past the point of no return. Our global climate stability has passed the point where it can recover and maintain itself. Like a circuit breaker flipping.. We are in a whole new ball game now and we find such gallows humor to be very distasteful.

---

From: Ernest Plutko <ernestplutko@wiktel.com>
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 9:46:06 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] global warming.........an observation that has nothingto do with science....

When the mile high ice sheet coming from up here takes over the South
they will not have too much to say about global warming.

FOOTNOTE:  some humor intended

---- Original Message ----
From: rattler_mt@yahoo.com
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] global warming........an observation that has
nothingto do with science....
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 19:10:11 -0700 (PDT)

>
>
>im thinking part of the issue is you southern ppl not getting us
>northerners' humor.....you kind of have to keep in mind some of us go
>through a quite long, quite cold winter......add that to first and
>last frost dates that can shift nearly 6 weeks from one year to the
>next and......well.....the term "global warming" has been used as a
>punch line to a joke ever seance the term came around up
>here.....most individuals know global warming really has nothing to
>do with it, its normal variations in our weather patterns.....but
>when we get a hard frost the end of May or the first killing frost
>hits us in September instead of the middle of October your going to
>hear us, mostly jokingly, wonder where in the heck the global warming
>is they have been promising us :D
>
>right now im dieing working outside in the 85-90 degrees it was last
>weekend cause less than a month ago the daily high was usually around
>25 and i was running around in a t-shirt in that.....i cant quit
>sweating.....
>
>its a punch line for a rather dry joke and nothing else is implied
>with it....
>
>Sheridan S.
>northeast Montana
>zone 3 or 4
>
>
>     
>_______________________________________________
>nafex mailing list
>nafex@lists..ibiblio.org
>
>Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
>This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on
>web sites.
>Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have
>permission!
>
>**YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
>Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
>No exceptions. 
>----
>To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can
>be used to change other email options):
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
>File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
>TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
>Please do not send binary files.
>Use plain text ONLY in emails!
>
>NAFEX web site:  http://www.nafex.org/


_______________________________________________
nafex mailing list
nafex@lists.ibiblio.org

Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web sites.
Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have permission!

**YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
No exceptions. 
----
To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can be used to change other email options):
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex

File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
Please do not send binary files.
Use plain text ONLY in emails!

NAFEX web site:  http://www.nafex.org/

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
nafex mailing list
nafex@lists.ibiblio.org

Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web sites.
Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have permission!

**YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
No exceptions. 
----
To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can be used to change other email options):
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex

File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
Please do not send binary files..
Use plain text ONLY in emails!

NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
nafex mailing list
nafex@lists.ibiblio.org

Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web sites.
Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have permission!

**YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
No exceptions. 
----
To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can be used to change other email options):
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex

File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
Please do not send binary files.
Use plain text ONLY in emails!

NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/