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["Kieran &/or Donna" <holycow@frontiernet.net>]

Michael's description of the behavior of black raspberries has me very 
puzzled.  I'm almost afraid to mention that I have a planting from a friend 
whose plants had come from Miller's.  Mine have been untended but harvested 
annually for about 12 years.  Our temps are probably colder than Oregon's, 
getting down to at least 8 degrees, sometimes to zero and a degree or two 
below a few times.  We have variable winter temps nearly every winter.  We 
have diseases galore.  Yet the plants keep spreading.  I try to cut out some 
of the honeysuckle and sometimes throw some phosphate or trace minerals on 
them.  I think I threw a little bit of commercial fertilizer at them this 
spring.  I don't do anything to prevent them from tiprooting where they 
like, as they are where the garden meets the woods.  Is it possible your 
soil is too alkaline, or even too rich?  Ours is poor acid clay, though the 
soil where they are is somewhat improved.    Donna