North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Anthony Curcio <apc@vassolinc.com>]

I've noticed from time to time notices on posting questions/replies. I am not 
sure if I was ever told the proper method. I click reply and then add my 
question/reply with my name to the subject line and put both in parenthesis. 
Is this the suggested method ?
Thank you, Anthony z4b

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org 
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of 
nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:51 PM
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: nafex Digest, Vol 72, Issue 31

Send nafex mailing list submissions to
        nafex@lists.ibiblio.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
        nafex-owner@lists.ibiblio.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: nursery culture (Mathew Waehner)
   2. Re: What do do with medlars (Neil Lewis)
   3. Re: boron questions (Ernest Plutko)
   4. Re: alleopathy of Carya sp. (Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu)
   5. Re: boron (Mark Angermayer)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:22:53 -0500
From: "Mathew Waehner" <waehner@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] nursery culture
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
        <b95769ff0901111022t5666b86aq2548a9002d29850e@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

There's a great book called "so you want to start a nursery?" by Tony
Avent.  The book deals with every aspect of the business, from technical to
accounting.

>From what I remember, the best overall system for trees of the size you have
in mind was "pot in pot"- containers sunk into the ground.  The system
needed some kind of copper treatment to keep the roots from reaching
into the soil.

Avent runs Plant Delights nursery, and their demonstration/ test gardens are
one fo the finest botanical gardens in the southeast.




On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Matt Demmon <mdemmon@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would definitely grow them in containers, because farm markets are
> all about spontaneous purchasing, and it will be more difficult to get
> customers to order bareroot in advance and pickup later. I can't even
> imagine digging trees and bringing them to market to try and sell
> them! Then bringing home a bundle of bareroots and trying to figure
> out what to do with them. Pots can be sold and planted any time of
> year, and held over for sales later in the year if they don't sell one
> week.
>
> I also think that market customers are willing to purchase something a
> little smaller, if it looks healthy, is reasonably sized, and cheaper
> than trees at the nursery. Most trees at local nurseries are sold
> huge, and for huge prices ($50 up to hundreds). If you can produce a
> stout, 2-3 foot straight-trunked tree in a gallon pot with a good root
> system, and charge $20 or less for it, I imagine you could do quite
> well. If they're too small, they won't survive well because of
> herbivores, and if they're too big, your costs and weight go up a lot.
>
> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:26 AM, James G Steen <geoff_steen@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >  To anyone with the knowledge:
> >
> > What is the best way to grow
> > apples, pears, persimmons
> > and chestnuts for sale at
> > farm markets?
> >
> > potting mix?
> > how to grow them bareroot?
> > nursery bed preparation?
> >
> > please give me some information
> > on these
> >
> > I'm going to expand my nursery
> > of these types of trees for sale
> > next year. I propagate all of them
> > by grafting and seed.
> >
> > Zone 6b, Looking for advice ~
> >
> > J. Geoffrey Steen
> > Raven Ridge Farm
> > 378 Panhandle Road
> > Marshall, NC 28753
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nafex mailing list
> > nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> >
> > Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
> > This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web
> > sites.
> > Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have
> > permission!
> >
> > **YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
> > Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
> > No exceptions.
> > ----
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can be
> used
> > to change other email options):
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> >
> > File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
> > TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
> > Please do not send binary files.
> > Use plain text ONLY in emails!
> >
> > NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> -matt demmon
> photos: www.flickr.com/photos/farmerdemmon
> _______________________________________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
> This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web
> sites.
> Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have
> permission!
>
> **YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
> Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
> No exceptions.
> ----
> To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can be
> used to change other email options):
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
> File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
> TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
> Please do not send binary files.
> Use plain text ONLY in emails!
>
> NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/nafex/attachments/20090111/2dfad9eb/attachment-0001.htm

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:00:11 -0500
From: Neil Lewis <lewisn@georgetown.edu>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] What do do with medlars
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <496A41BB.20303@georgetown.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Stephen,

My sister in law in South Australia has a medlar tree (not bush) and
made delicious jelly out of the medlars. We had it with turkey the
christmas before last. Her tree is about 12' tall, but she lives
literally in the middle of one of Australia's major apple orchard areas,
where pome fruit does exceptionally well. I've got a couple of medlar
trees growing now here in MD, but they are only in the first and second
years.


>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:36:27 -0800
> From: "Stephen Sadler" <Docshiva@Docshiva.org>
> Subject: [NAFEX] What to do with your medlars
> To: "'North American Fruit Explorers'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <000001c973c7$b1e76d70$15b64850$@org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I'm wondering how medlar butter would be.  I find medlar jelly recipes, and
> they require no pectin.
>
>
>
> Or one could make medlar "cheese":
>
>
>
>



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:27:55 -0600
From: "Ernest Plutko" <ernestplutko@wiktel.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] boron questions
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <380-220091011192755953@wiktel.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

It works but typed an i instead of a 1.    modf1 one).   Doesn't work
let me know.

---- Original Message ----
From: sdw12986@aol.com
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] boron questions
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:09:49 -0500

>
>
>Ernest Plutko wrote:
>> Go to this Michigan State University site about boron:
>>
>>
>>      HTTP://web1.msue.msu.edu/imp/modfi/05209709.html
>
>
>The link doesn't work. I got a "We're sorry but...." page.
>_______________________________________________
>nafex mailing list
>nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>
>Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
>This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on
>web sites.
>Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have
>permission!
>
>**YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
>Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
>No exceptions.
>----
>To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can
>be used to change other email options):
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
>File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
>TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
>Please do not send binary files.
>Use plain text ONLY in emails!
>
>NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:38:25 -0600
From: "Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu" <Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] alleopathy of Carya sp.
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
        <38d993041e8646789859657755cc397c.Lucky.Pittman@murraystate.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8


Alan,
I've got no doubt but that pecans do produce juglone,
though all the scholarly writings I've seen indicate
that it is in minimal amounts - at least compared to
J.nigra.  Saw something in print somewhere, sometime,
suggesting that of the Carya species, C.ovata -
shagbark hickory - was the worst offender, insofar as
juglone production was concerned.
I've always wondered how much of the 'juglone
toxicity' effect was actually due to the direct
effect of juglone, and how much was due to the
ability of the roots of a big mature black walnut(or
pecan, for that matter) to outcompete smaller
plants/trees for available water & nutrients - as
well as shading them.
When you've severed the roots of these pecans and
seen a concurrent improvement in the lot of the
peaches, is it because you've caused a reduction in
juglone, or removed a significant degree of root
competition?

Growing up in east-central AL, there were plenty of
big old pecans all around the farmstead, including a
number of sizeable seedling trees that had popped up
in the fencerow surrounding my grandmother's garden -
as well as a number of seedling landrace-type
peaches.  I never really noticed any significant
effect on the peaches or vegetables from the pecans,
but I might not have noticed it if it had been there
- and the pecans have the potential to still be there
200 years from now, but all the peaches are now gone.

I also had several pomegranates I'd started from
cuttings as an 8 yr old kid, but I'd planted them
about 15 ft from the trunk of what was then a young
eastern black walnut - I didn't know anything about
juglone then.  They grew, without fruiting, for
nearly 30 years, until my parents had to replace the
drain tile from the septic tank, necessitating
trenching right between the walnut and the
pomegranates - all but killing the walnut.  The
pomegranates have borne heavily, on a yearly basis
ever since.

Make of it what you will....

Lucky Pittman
Hopkinsville, KY


------- Original Message -------
>From    : Alan Haigh[mailto:alandhaigh@gmail.com]
Sent    : 1/11/2009 11:35:12 AM
To      : nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Cc      :
Subject : RE: [NAFEX] alleopathy of Carya sp.

 I manage an orchard which is adjacent to 2 very old
northern hardy pecans.  The soil is shallow and at
the orchards closest proximity to these pecans there
are a group of peach trees which have failed to grow
well at all.  I notice that the pecan roots look and
smell very similarly to black-walnut roots and have
come to the conclusion that they may well be the
cause of this faulty performance.


When I first arrived at this site years ago, I was
asked to replace peach trees that had died in this
spot.  I broke up a considerable amount of soil,
severing competing roots some distance from the trees
and these trees grew as vigorously for 2 or 3 years
but than began to runt out.


I was unfamiliar with pecan trees so it was a while
before I identified them (noticed very small pecans
at their base).  Once I decided that my problem could
be alleopathy I took a metal spade with a long handle
and long blade (King of Spades) and trenched a couple
of feet down in about 8' diameter circles around each
peach tree.  After this the trees became vigorous
again for a year but runted out later and didn't
respond the next time to this treatment.  My theory
is that the roots of the pecans are now well
established beneath the depth I am reaching.  To go
still deeper is not practical.


My question to you out there with more experience
with pecans is whether you've had similar
difficulties growing peaches under them.  Other trees
in the orchard, even apricots and cherries just as
close, have not suffered to the same degree (if at
all).  Am I even correct that Carya sp. have the same
alleopathic tendency as Juglans?  My google search
seems to indicate that to be so but I was unable to
find specifics before running out of patience.


I also have had the same problem with brambles on the
same general site where there is another very large
pecan nearby and black pecan roots visible where the
berries are planted.




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:56:25 -0600
From: "Mark Angermayer" <hangermayer@isp.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] boron
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <003901c97426$b19549a0$ac1af504@computer5>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Steve,

It is puzzling that there would be such a fine line between boron deficiency
and toxicity.  Boron is one of the trace elements, which means plants
require very "trace" amounts.  But that doesn't explain why it is so easily
toxic.  I do believe it's easily toxic though.  Too much out there that says
so.  I'm not willing to validate the experiments on our soil.

It appears there would be less toxicity problems with eastern soils because
toxicity is more observed on alkaline soils (out west).  Here are a couple
links that discuss toxicity.  Around 2ppm seems to be the upper threshold.
Compare that to Calcium which can safely run at 3000 ppm or more.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1492787/extractability_plant_yield_and_toxicity_thresholds_for_boron_in_compost/

http://www.toprak.org.tr/isd/can_09.htm

Mark
KS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve" <>
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] boron


>
>
> Ernest Plutko wrote:
> > Boric acid is about 16.5% boron and borax is about 11.3% boron.  I
> > understand boron deficiency is rare and it is easy to poison plants
> > with boron.
> >
>
> So, if most soils have enough boron and it's easy to add too much,
> making the soil toxic, are there areas that naturally have too much
> boron for most plants? Oh, I'm sure that could be the case out west,
> especially in an internal drainage basin situation where there's too
> much of lots of things. What about the eastern half of North America?
> It seems impossible to me that there would be a fine line between an
> optimal amount and a toxic amount. If it were a tiny difference, then I
> would expect big areas with a deficiency and/or big areas with too much.
>
> I've often wondered if my yard could be deficient in boron. (Not so
> curious though that I sent in a soil test.) I live in the northeast, in
> an area where the underlying rock is about all granite. I do live along
> the lake shore and not up the side of a mountain.
>
> I remember something about beets needing boron, and I think someone here
> mentioned beets. I never grew them until the last 2 summers. They seemed
> to do fine so can I trust that I have enough boron? The leaves were kind
> of sickly looking but the beets sized up OK and were tasty (for a beet).
>
> Steve ... in the Adirondacks of northern NY
>
> _______________________________________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
> This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web
sites.
> Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have
permission!
>
> **YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
> Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
> No exceptions.
> ----
> To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can be
used to change other email options):
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>
> File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
> TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
> Please do not send binary files.
> Use plain text ONLY in emails!
>
> NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
nafex mailing list
nafex@lists.ibiblio.org

Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web sites.
Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have permission!

**YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are discarded.
No exceptions.
----
To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page (also can be used 
to change other email options):
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex

File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
Please do not send binary files.
Use plain text ONLY in emails!

NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/


End of nafex Digest, Vol 72, Issue 31
*************************************