North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["Naomi" <dragon-star@cableone.net>]

Many good points.  

Just to add.. another good reason to have chickens work the orchard when
there is not any ripe or ripening fruit in the trees is that the chickens
with jump/fly up and peck on it.  

A friend once told me of watching his chickens jumping up and down under his
grapes. He laughed...and then he chased them out.
Naomi

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Rosholdt
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 7:48 AM
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [NAFEX] Small batch producer - e. coli risk

Speaking as a former "small batch" producer in Ohio (400 to 1000 
gallons) depending on the apples and equipment, we continued to make raw 
cider even after Ohio had pretty much outlawed raw cider. The health 
people gave us an exception because we ran our production "like a 
dairy".  The apples were Not drops (they had been prior to new regs and 
no problems), they were triple washed and once they hit the grinders it 
was all pretty much "hands off" sanitary. We screened insects out of the 
building.  We pressed and sold raw cider at the farm until my uncle had 
to quit due to aging health issues and it really required two people (at 
least one in good shape) to work the big hydraulic press.

That whole "not drops" and e.coli business is silly.  In the first 
place, it is the large facilities that have more problems - there are 
articles all over the net discussing CAFO problems.  E.coli is 
everywhere, and the nasty e.coli comes from the feedlots and huge 
confinement facilities.  Those places are breeding places for disease.  
Pastured poultry and cows rarely have the type that damages people - if 
it is there, it is due to mismanagement.

Birds sit in trees and pee and poop all the time. Caterpillers leave 
frass all over the place.  Am I not going to eat fruit because of that?

I remember when we were pressing 75 gallons a day using an old "two 
station" corkscrew press back in the 50s and 60s.  No screening, no 
instant cooling, all hand filtered into jugs.  Yellow jackets were 
always getting in the cider.  We used drops, but otherwise it was 
"clean":  washed equipment before and after, washed apples (handled, not 
just dumped).  Sorted out the rot, etc.  No one ever got sick, and 
people came from miles around to buy it. 

We did graze cattle in the orchard when there weren't apples to eat, and 
as has been stated, you can't keep the wildlife out. 

I am a big proponent of people seeing where their food comes from, and 
if you have any hesitancy, go watch 'em make cider and look at the 
orchard/operation.  You'll see for yourself if you want to eat or drink 
anything that comes from that establishment.

I know a guy who has chickens in his orchard - not when the fruit is 
growing/ripening.  They eat the codling moths, japanese beetles, and 
other critters that make fruit growing/eating experiences a 
disappointment.  He is really a happy man because he doesn't have to 
spray his fruit trees for curculios, codling moths, etc.

I don't see anything wrong with grazing animals in an orchard and a lot 
of things right.

Barbara Rosholdt
z7 central Virginia

Subject:
Re: [NAFEX] more E.coli
From:
<dmnorton@royaloakfarmorchard.com>
Date:
Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:40:21 -0600

To:
"North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>


We are a small batch facility....400 gallons to the batch.   We use do 
use drops from time to time.  All of our apples are sanitized before 
packing or using for cider and we pasteurize our cider, plus wash our 
sealed room cider mill with bleach between each batch, so we have no 
e-coli issues.  Anyone who serves cider to the public and does not use 
sanitation procedures is asking for a problem!

Dennis Norton
Royal Oak Farm Orchard
http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com
http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com
http://www.revivalhymn.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Olenio" <tolenio@sentex.net>
To: "'North American Fruit Explorers'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] more E.coli


Hello,

Small batch facilities will take all comers.  They ask no questions and all
you need is one contaminated apple to get into production and it effects 
all
batches run that day.  The whole facility is NOT washed between customer
batches.  I have been in a number of them in Ontario.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Naomi
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 4:05 PM
To: 'North American Fruit Explorers'
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] more E.coli

Or a chicken coop.. ya know which hole the eggs come outta?

Free ranging chickens and turkeys can be a self terminating venture..dogs,
foxes, skunks.. It is better to coop them at night unless your trees are
really big.

I thought it was no longer permitterd to make commercial cider out of 
drops.
Naomi
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