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nafex - [NAFEX] Small batch producer - e. coli risk

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  • From: Rosholdt <rosholdt@erols.com>
  • To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [NAFEX] Small batch producer - e. coli risk
  • Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:48:02 -0500

Speaking as a former "small batch" producer in Ohio (400 to 1000 gallons) depending on the apples and equipment, we continued to make raw cider even after Ohio had pretty much outlawed raw cider. The health people gave us an exception because we ran our production "like a dairy". The apples were Not drops (they had been prior to new regs and no problems), they were triple washed and once they hit the grinders it was all pretty much "hands off" sanitary. We screened insects out of the building. We pressed and sold raw cider at the farm until my uncle had to quit due to aging health issues and it really required two people (at least one in good shape) to work the big hydraulic press.

That whole "not drops" and e.coli business is silly. In the first place, it is the large facilities that have more problems - there are articles all over the net discussing CAFO problems. E.coli is everywhere, and the nasty e.coli comes from the feedlots and huge confinement facilities. Those places are breeding places for disease. Pastured poultry and cows rarely have the type that damages people - if it is there, it is due to mismanagement.

Birds sit in trees and pee and poop all the time. Caterpillers leave frass all over the place. Am I not going to eat fruit because of that?

I remember when we were pressing 75 gallons a day using an old "two station" corkscrew press back in the 50s and 60s. No screening, no instant cooling, all hand filtered into jugs. Yellow jackets were always getting in the cider. We used drops, but otherwise it was "clean": washed equipment before and after, washed apples (handled, not just dumped). Sorted out the rot, etc. No one ever got sick, and people came from miles around to buy it.
We did graze cattle in the orchard when there weren't apples to eat, and as has been stated, you can't keep the wildlife out.
I am a big proponent of people seeing where their food comes from, and if you have any hesitancy, go watch 'em make cider and look at the orchard/operation. You'll see for yourself if you want to eat or drink anything that comes from that establishment.

I know a guy who has chickens in his orchard - not when the fruit is growing/ripening. They eat the codling moths, japanese beetles, and other critters that make fruit growing/eating experiences a disappointment. He is really a happy man because he doesn't have to spray his fruit trees for curculios, codling moths, etc.

I don't see anything wrong with grazing animals in an orchard and a lot of things right.

Barbara Rosholdt
z7 central Virginia

Subject:
Re: [NAFEX] more E.coli
From:
<dmnorton@royaloakfarmorchard.com>
Date:
Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:40:21 -0600

To:
"North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>


We are a small batch facility....400 gallons to the batch. We use do use drops from time to time. All of our apples are sanitized before packing or using for cider and we pasteurize our cider, plus wash our sealed room cider mill with bleach between each batch, so we have no e-coli issues. Anyone who serves cider to the public and does not use sanitation procedures is asking for a problem!

Dennis Norton
Royal Oak Farm Orchard
http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com
http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com
http://www.revivalhymn.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Olenio" <tolenio@sentex.net>
To: "'North American Fruit Explorers'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] more E.coli


Hello,

Small batch facilities will take all comers. They ask no questions and all
you need is one contaminated apple to get into production and it effects all
batches run that day. The whole facility is NOT washed between customer
batches. I have been in a number of them in Ontario.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Naomi
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 4:05 PM
To: 'North American Fruit Explorers'
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] more E.coli

Or a chicken coop.. ya know which hole the eggs come outta?

Free ranging chickens and turkeys can be a self terminating venture..dogs,
foxes, skunks.. It is better to coop them at night unless your trees are
really big.

I thought it was no longer permitterd to make commercial cider out of drops.
Naomi




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