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  • From: hans brinkmann <hans-brinkmann@t-online.de>
  • To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Jolico cornus mas
  • Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 20:36:20 +0200

Hallo Neil,

usually Cornus mas is not self-fertile and we need usually always a pollinator for e.g. Jolico.
Anyhow some C. mas are selffertile.
Usually you should plant different C. mas and some plants (Mascula and others) are only pollinators.

The fruits are dried or used for marmelades, jelly, lemonade (Turkey 'Scherbet'), for wine and also for a snaps (Dirndl-Schnaps)
or a liquor. Also for cooking and meals.
Half ripe fruits are treated like an olive and are a substitute for them.

ciao
hans



Neil T Lewis schrieb:

Hans,

Hidden Springs nursery sells Jolico. I recently bought two trees from them.
I gather that cornus mas is generally self-fertile, but I have read that
Jolico is not. Do you know anything about this?

Neil

(This is my first post. I am a fruit tree newbie, but have been reading this
list for the last year and find it extremely helpful.)

----- Original Message -----
From: nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Sunday, October 7, 2007 9:46 am
Subject: nafex Digest, Vol 57, Issue 18


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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Illinois Everbearing (William C. Garthright)
2. Re: Illinois Everbearing (William C. Garthright)
3. Illinois Everbearing fruit (Jim Fruth)
4. Re: Bletting (Lon J. Rombough)
5. What's in your fertilizer? (Jim Fruth)
6. Re: Bletting (hans brinkmann)
7. C. Mas 'Jolico' (John S)


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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:14:34 -0500
From: "William C. Garthright" <billg@inebraska.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Illinois Everbearing
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4707B46A.5000400@inebraska.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed



But, to me, that's one of its endearing features, in addition to
its heavy production of extremely tasty berries. You can plant a small specimen, and in a very short timeframe, you'll have a nice, large productive tree.


Well, I'm sure it's an endearing feature if you have room for it. In my case, I'm trying to cram as many different kinds of fruit as possible into my backyard. Heh, heh. Still, this is at the NW corner of my lot, near the street and the alley, so I can manage a large tree there, if I have to. I'm going to try to keep it reasonably small, though, so I guess I'll keep trying to train the firehose!

:-)

Bill





--
I am a biologist. Like it or not, the Republican party is being led by religious zealots who are anti-biology, who publicly and vigorously oppose reason and knowledge and evidence in my field of study. - PZ Myers

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:45:37 -0500
From: "William C. Garthright" <billg@inebraska.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Illinois Everbearing
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4707BBB1.9050507@inebraska.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed



When you summer prune, you are probably pruning off buds in which
flowers that will bloom the following year have already been initiated. ... He says it takes 50 days for the mulberry tree to initiate floral primordia. I do not know, however, whether the tree maintains this ability throughout the growing season.


Thanks for the link, Sam. I see that the pruning there is somewhat like what I had in mind, as far as keeping the tree as a bushy stump (a higher stump, in my case, since the roots are white mulberry). However, the focus of this book is on the production of leaves, not fruit, apparently.

I just planted my tree this spring, but I do have some green mulberries on it. Not too many, and of course it's very late in the year, but they are on this year's growth. That's why I was hoping to be able to prune heavily in the spring and still get berries. I wouldn't have to worry about summer pruning, if I just cut the whole thing back to a stump every spring. However, if the buds are initiated the year before, that won't work.

Well, this is one tree with which I feel I can really experiment. I'm going to plant a Geraldi Dwarf Mulberry next spring, so if I do something really unforgivable with this one (I almost have, already), I can just start over. For some reason, I don't feel that way about the rest of my fruit trees, despite the fact that I'll be buried in fruit if all of them do survive and produce. :-D

Thanks again,

Bill
Lincoln, NE (zone 5)

--
The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment. - Warren G. Bennis


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 12:10:58 -0500
From: "Jim Fruth" <jfruth@tds.net>
Subject: [NAFEX] Illinois Everbearing fruit
To: "NAFEX" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <004a01c8083b$dea7f120$3679de42@ibma20plaptop>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Betsy Hilborn asked: "Everyone talks about how heavily this tree bears fruit, however I have
had a different experience. I purchased an Illinois Everbearing from Stark Brothers in spring 2003.
The tree now has a trunk of about 5" diameter; I have summer pruned it
to keep it as a 12' wide, 10' tall heavily branched bushy tree. DuringJune- August , I find 3-5 ripe fruits on it per week. I do not consider this heavy bearing, although I assume that I must lose
some whole fruits to birds. What do people mean by fruiting heavily. Is my experience typical?"

Betsy,
My Illinois Everbearing bear fruit at every leaf axil. The fruit goes from green to red to black often in less than two days. I have assumed that red was ripe and black was overripe (Black has the most/best flavor). A gentle breeze will knock of the black fruits and a stronger wind will knock off the red ones. Alot more fruit falls on the ground than what amount the birds eat. If I don't harvest fruit every day,or oftener, I don't get much. We planted the trees to make jelly so I'm planning something similar to an upside-down umbrella made of veil netting or shade cloth to catch the fruit before the mice get it.

Now for questions: All of my Mulberry fruit is seedless which is, I'm assuming, the reason it falls off so readily. Does seeded Mulberry fruit hang on longer? My Mulberry fruits measure about 1/4"x 1". Is seeded Mulberry larger?

Jim Fruth
Brambleberry Farm
Pequot Lakes, MN 56472
For jams, jellies & syrups:
www.bberryfarm.com
(877)265-6856 [Store]
(218)831-7018 [My Cell]


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 11:34:03 -0700
From: "Lon J. Rombough" <lonrom@hevanet.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Bletting
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <e4eb81a408b29a7c239c84670b17afb8@hevanet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

The traditional method in Elizabethan times was to bury medlars in a bowl of fruitwood sawdust. This argues that they need dark, reasonably humid conditions to blet. I've found that when they blet in a group they do better than single fruits, which tend to dry up rather than blet. So humidity must be important. Probably bletting in leaves would do the same thing.
-Lon Rombough
Grapes, writing, consulting, my book, The Grape Grower, at http://www.bunchgrapes.com Winner of the Garden Writers Association "Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003.
For even more grape lessons, go to http://www.grapeschool.com
For all other things grape, http://www.vitisearch.com

On Oct 6, 2007, at 8:02 AM, rob hamilton wrote:
On a related topic...
I would like to here some different methods of bletting from people. I know a number of my Medlars sour or even moldy before finishing. I can imaging fleshy fruits like the Quinces would have and even worse problem. Does anyone prep the fruits first?? ...a 3% bleach or distilled vinegar wash? Do they do better on sunlight or in dark?

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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 13:57:52 -0500
From: "Jim Fruth" <jfruth@tds.net>
Subject: [NAFEX] What's in your fertilizer?
To: "NAFEX" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <012b01c8084a$cd8cd4a0$3679de42@ibma20plaptop>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Science News Online, Sept. 22, 2007
(http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20070922/note15.asp)

Web Special: You fertilized with what?

Janet Raloff

Talk about your all-natural fertilizer with a high yuck factor. Researchersin Finland have just published results of a study showing that farmers can
substitute human urine for conventional fertilizer and get a notable
increase in cabbage yields. Moreover, the crop's taste was at least as
acceptable as that of the greens fertilized conventionally.

Surendra K. Pradhan of the University of Kuopio and his colleagues grewcabbages using a conventional fertilizer, human urine that had been stored
for 6 months, or no soil amendments at all. In an upcoming issue of theJournal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry, the researchers report that
urine treatment yielded cabbages that were bigger and carried fewer germsthan either other approach yielded.

Although the nutrient content of urine depends on what someone has eaten,analyses of the urine used in these experiments showed that its nitrogen,
phosphorus, and potassium content was comparable to that of commercial
fertilizer.

Sauerkraut made from cabbages cultivated in the three ways had slightlydifferent flavors, according to taste panelists, but were equally well
liked.

Urine collected from one individual over the course of a year could
fertilize a 90-square-meter plot, yielding more than 160 cabbages, the team
calculates. The data indicate that a urine-treated plot would yield 64
kilograms more cabbage than one fertilized conventionally, and 256 kg more
than an unfertilized crop would.

Earlier this year, the Kuopio scientists reported that cucumbers similarlybenefit from the use of urine over conventional fertilizer.

__._,_.___


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 13:53:07 +0200
From: hans brinkmann <hans-brinkmann@t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Bletting
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4708C8A3.8070206@t-online.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hallo Lon, hallo Rob,

thank you very much!
I did not know Pseudocydonia sinensis! Is the hardiness of 5 true?
E.g. there is one Cydonia ('Robusta') at Germany which is called fireblight resistant.
Cornus mas 'Jolico' is e.g. also very nice directly from the tree, but fully ripe.

I thought bletting has a connection with the Phenole- resp. Tannin-content...?
E.g. some Medlars have a Tannin content of 0,06%.
They used Medlars as Marmelade, Jelly, cooked, fresh, for Juice, Wine, Liquor ...
Also to increase fruit-wines quality because of Tannin.
Even in ancient times Medlars were kept into wine diluted with water and into honey.
At the middleage some lonely monks were "eating only medlars and nuts".At Bulgaria they are put into vinegar or vinegar-sugar solution and sold as 'Mushmulnica'.
Or roasted with butter, wine and sugar.
I like to eat also very few unbletted fruit fresh from the tree.
Bletting was done in very different ways:
Just keeping them without touching at the air on boards or stringed at a cord.
Or inside sawdust or straw."Writers and medlars are the best after laying on (in) straw"!

ciao
hans


Lon J. Rombough schrieb:


The traditional method in Elizabethan times was to bury medlars
in a
bowl of fruitwood sawdust. This argues that they need dark,
reasonably
humid conditions to blet. I've found that when they blet in a
group
they do better than single fruits, which tend to dry up rather
than
blet. So humidity must be important. Probably bletting in leaves
would
do the same thing.
-Lon Rombough
Grapes, writing, consulting, my book, *The Grape Grower, *at http://www.bunchgrapes.com Winner of the Garden Writers
Association
"Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003.
For even more grape lessons, go to http://www.grapeschool.com
For all other things grape, http://www.vitisearch.com

On Oct 6, 2007, at 8:02 AM, rob hamilton wrote:
On a related topic...
I would like to here some different methods of bletting from
people. I
know a number of my Medlars sour or even moldy before finishing.
I can
imaging fleshy fruits like the Quinces would have and even worse problem. Does anyone prep the fruits first? ...a 3% bleach or distilled vinegar wash? Do they do better on sunlight or in dark?


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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 06:46:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: John S <swim_at_svc@yahoo.com>
Subject: [NAFEX] C. Mas 'Jolico'
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <368796.31427.qm@web39101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hans, I am not sure where you are located, but do you know of any sources of 'Jolico' in the US?
Thanks
John

hans brinkmann <hans-brinkmann@t-online.de> wrote:
Hallo Lon, hallo Rob,

thank you very much!
I did not know Pseudocydonia sinensis! Is the hardiness of 5 true?
E.g. there is one Cydonia ('Robusta') at Germany which is called fireblight resistant.
Cornus mas 'Jolico' is e.g. also very nice directly from the tree, but fully ripe.

I thought bletting has a connection with the Phenole- resp. Tannin-content...?
E.g. some Medlars have a Tannin content of 0,06%.
They used Medlars as Marmelade, Jelly, cooked, fresh, for Juice, Wine, Liquor ...
Also to increase fruit-wines quality because of Tannin.
Even in ancient times Medlars were kept into wine diluted with water and into honey.
At the middleage some lonely monks were "eating only medlars and nuts".At Bulgaria they are put into vinegar or vinegar-sugar solution and sold as 'Mushmulnica'.
Or roasted with butter, wine and sugar.
I like to eat also very few unbletted fruit fresh from the tree.
Bletting was done in very different ways:
Just keeping them without touching at the air on boards or stringed at a cord.
Or inside sawdust or straw."Writers and medlars are the best after laying on (in) straw"!

ciao
hans


Lon J. Rombough schrieb:


The traditional method in Elizabethan times was to bury medlars
in a
bowl of fruitwood sawdust. This argues that they need dark,
reasonably
humid conditions to blet. I've found that when they blet in a
group
they do better than single fruits, which tend to dry up rather
than
blet. So humidity must be important. Probably bletting in leaves
would
do the same thing.
-Lon Rombough
Grapes, writing, consulting, my book, *The Grape Grower, *at http://www.bunchgrapes.com Winner of the Garden Writers
Association
"Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003.
For even more grape lessons, go to http://www.grapeschool.com
For all other things grape, http://www.vitisearch.com

On Oct 6, 2007, at 8:02 AM, rob hamilton wrote:
On a related topic...
I would like to here some different methods of bletting from
people. I
know a number of my Medlars sour or even moldy before finishing.
I can
imaging fleshy fruits like the Quinces would have and even worse problem. Does anyone prep the fruits first? ...a 3% bleach or distilled vinegar wash? Do they do better on sunlight or in dark?


-------------------------------------------------------------------

-----

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03.10.2007 20:22


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