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  • From: "Anthony Curcio" <apc@vassolinc.com>
  • To: <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [NAFEX] nafex Digest, Vol 53, Issue 36 Persimmon Die back
  • Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:06:34 -0500

Both of my Persimmon trees sent up a second shoot from
the base. I checked to see if the second was below a graft, it
was not. I chose the best of the two shoots on one tree and cut
the other off. Now the tree seems to be dead. I left the other
tree alone and now have two trunks 4" tall.
Anyone had this experience??
Thanks, Anthony Nth. Illinois
----- Original Message ----- From: <nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 8:11 AM
Subject: nafex Digest, Vol 53, Issue 36


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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Cherry Tree Lunacy (William C. Garthright)
2. Re: Mulberry (Erdman, James)
3. Zone 3 Mulberries (Jim Fruth)
4. Re: Cherry Tree Lunacy (Thomas Olenio)
5. Zone 3 Persimmon (Jim Fruth)
6. Re: Cherry Tree Lunacy (Ginda Fisher)
7. Re: Illinois Everbearing Mulberry (William C. Garthright)
8. Robins (Jim Fruth)
9. bamboo info (Goodwill at Homefields Farm)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:16:40 -0500
From: "William C. Garthright" <billg@inebraska.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Cherry Tree Lunacy
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <466D3D28.9000300@inebraska.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed


No cats to patrol the berries? I've used Mylar scare-tape in trees, along with a seed feeder nearby with good results for birds - also always have some bright red non-crop berries growing.


Cats would be worse pests than the birds, I'd think, and I don't like
them running loose in town. Robins don't eat seeds, so a feeder doesn't
help there, and I haven't noticed much problem with seed-eating species
on my fruit. (Although, come to think of it, it was cardinals that
cleaned out my few grapes last year, so maybe I should fill up my
feeders again, after all.)

None of the scare-tape kind of stuff (homemade versions) have worked for
me, but that might be partly because robins are so tame. It didn't work
on the cardinals last year, either. But perhaps it keeps away more wary
birds? I suppose it couldn't hurt to put it up again, just in case.
Non-crop berries? I'm planting nothing I can't eat, but if everything
starts producing, I'll probably have more than the critters and I can
eat, together!

Yes, that squirrel spray sounds interesting. None of my squirrels can
really be hungry (I feed them peanuts to keep them full, though it
hasn't kept them out of the strawberries), so you wouldn't think it
would take much to discourage them.

Bill
Lincoln, NE (zone 5)


--
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets
knowledge, the latter ignorance. - Hippocrates (460 - 377 BCE)


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:18:38 -0500
From: "Erdman, James" <ErdmanJ@uwstout.edu>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Mulberry
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <413BF80F8BF1254094223A8811DBCE3524B33A@FMS.uwstout.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"



I have a Mulberry that is 15 years old or so, here in Menomonie, WI, an hour east of St Paul, Minnesota, that has been bearing fruit for more than 5 years. I got it from Bear Creek shortly after we moved here. It has been unaffected by the cold so far, and we have had close to 40 below a time or two in those years. We used to be considered to be on the cold edge of zone 4, with an area of zone 3 just a few miles west of us. The birds do harvest most of the crop, however, as they seem to prefer the berries just a day less ripe than I do.

I am sure that I have the variety written down in my orchard notebook or in my files, and will check when I have a chance.

Jim Erdman, in Menomonie, WI
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:34:59 -0500
From: "Jim Fruth" <jfruth@tds.net>
Subject: [NAFEX] Zone 3 Mulberries
To: "NAFEX" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <000f01c7ac24$eead8da0$6e79de42@ibma20plaptop>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

mIEKAL asked, "Jim, are they bearing fruit? How do they taste?"


Ambrosia! Both taste wonderful! Both started bearing the first year
after planting, The Illinois Everbearing was only 2' high and produced
black 1-1/4" fruit. The Morus alba was, maybe, 4' high producing 3/8"
diameter black fruits. I ordered two M albas, one male and one female, so I
planted then 3' apart to ensure pollination. Turns out, they are both
female producing fruit via parthenogenesis. These are about 60' removed
from the Illinois Everbearing.
Some years ago, I bought a M. alba from a Minnesota nursery that grew to
about 12'. After several years, it produced one white fruit and promptly
died the following Spring after a mild Winter.

Jim Fruth
Brambleberry Farm
Pequot Lakes, MN 56472
For jams, jellies & syrups:
www.bberryfarm.com
(218)568-8483 [Store]
(218)831-7018 [My Cell]



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:36:42 -0400
From: "Thomas Olenio" <tolenio@sentex.net>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Cherry Tree Lunacy
To: "'North American Fruit Explorers'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <000601c7ac25$2b544960$1f8b0740@userd5c77564e4>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi,

If you use an artificial owl suspend it on a fishing line so it moves
slightly with a breeze. Also place it where an owl would roost (not the
middle of the lawn). In this instance you need to have a bird brain and
think like a bird. The more "natural" you make it, the better it will work.

The first time my dog spotted mine, she was scared by it and barked at it
for a few minutes. If it can scare a dog, it will scare a bird.

Make sure you can put it in various "natural" locations so birds do not
become accustomed to it.

Also, there are mylar balloons designed to scare birds. Something hovering
overhead never makes a bird feel comfortable. Millions of years of hawks
overhead have taught them that lesson. See here;

http://www.biconet.com/birds/helikite2.html

Later,
Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of William C. Garthright
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 8:17 AM
To: North American Fruit Explorers
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Cherry Tree Lunacy


No cats to patrol the berries? I've used Mylar scare-tape in trees, along
with a seed feeder nearby with good results for birds - also always have
some bright red non-crop berries growing.


Cats would be worse pests than the birds, I'd think, and I don't like
them running loose in town. Robins don't eat seeds, so a feeder doesn't
help there, and I haven't noticed much problem with seed-eating species
on my fruit. (Although, come to think of it, it was cardinals that
cleaned out my few grapes last year, so maybe I should fill up my
feeders again, after all.)

None of the scare-tape kind of stuff (homemade versions) have worked for
me, but that might be partly because robins are so tame. It didn't work
on the cardinals last year, either. But perhaps it keeps away more wary
birds? I suppose it couldn't hurt to put it up again, just in case.
Non-crop berries? I'm planting nothing I can't eat, but if everything
starts producing, I'll probably have more than the critters and I can
eat, together!

Yes, that squirrel spray sounds interesting. None of my squirrels can
really be hungry (I feed them peanuts to keep them full, though it
hasn't kept them out of the strawberries), so you wouldn't think it
would take much to discourage them.

Bill
Lincoln, NE (zone 5)


--
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets
knowledge, the latter ignorance. - Hippocrates (460 - 377 BCE)
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:40:29 -0500
From: "Jim Fruth" <jfruth@tds.net>
Subject: [NAFEX] Zone 3 Persimmon
To: "NAFEX" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001501c7ac25$b49c7b70$6e79de42@ibma20plaptop>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Is there really a zone 3 persimmon? I bought two,alleged, zone 3
(wild?) persimmon last year and, after an unusually mild Winter, one died
down to the (almost no) snow line and the other died completely.

Jim Fruth
Brambleberry Farm
Pequot Lakes, MN 56472
For jams, jellies & syrups:
www.bberryfarm.com
(218)568-8483 [Store]
(218)831-7018 [My Cell]



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 8:45:40 -0400
From: Ginda Fisher <list@ginda.us>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Cherry Tree Lunacy
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <1931-SnapperMsgBFA27874C292F489@[68.247.134.153]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII


___
Ginda

...... Original Message .......
On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:16:40 -0500 "William C. Garthright"
<billg@inebraska.com> wrote:

No cats to patrol the berries? I've used Mylar scare-tape in trees,
along with a seed feeder nearby with good results for birds - also always
have some bright red non-crop berries growing.


Cats would be worse pests than the birds, I'd think, and I don't like
them running loose in town.

My cat patrols my garden, and she's not a pest at all. She uses a nearby
abandoned sandbox for her business, and is very good about not damanging
any of the plants. Having cats has made an enormous difference in my berry
harvest. This year i've even gotten a handful of strawberries (which i'd
completely given up on.) I doubt it's a coincidence that those
strawberries grew next to a large flat stone she like to sun herself on.

I used to use all sorts of nets and stuff with little success. Now I only
net the blueberries.

She does leave us 'presents' of dead birds, and we find parts of baby
bunnies in the spring.

It is problematic to let cats run loose in the vicinity of cars, or
outdoors at night with the larger predators - for you cats, not for your
garden. We bring ours in early in the evening.

Ginda


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:46:15 -0500
From: "William C. Garthright" <billg@inebraska.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Illinois Everbearing Mulberry
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <466D4417.4060201@inebraska.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed


I was interested to hear about other people's experience with this mulberry. I had just recently bought mine from Burnt Ridge and set it in ground bareroot in April. We had cold weather, although nothing as extreme in scope as some of you have described. However, my mulberry never broke dormancy either in zone 6, PA which was most disappointing.


I bought my first Illinois Everbearing mulberry from Forestfarm a little
over a year ago, and it never broke dormancy, either. They sent me a
replacement that I planted June 7, 2006, and it grew very well - very
fast - and looked great. But it didn't break dormancy this year. Of
course, we had that April cold snap this year. But I'm wondering about
the pattern with this tree.

Well, I bought another one this spring, so we'll see how that goes.

Bill
Lincoln, NE (zone 5)

--
120 million of us place the big bang 2,500 years after the Babylonians
and Sumerians learned to brew beer. - Sam Harris


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:51:23 -0500
From: "Jim Fruth" <jfruth@tds.net>
Subject: [NAFEX] Robins
To: "NAFEX" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001901c7ac27$3916b540$6e79de42@ibma20plaptop>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Bill,
I don't you try the fake berry decoys I spoke about last week. Works
for me! Of course, it is a little late for this year
but.....................there's always next year. Incidentally, I don't
remember if I mentioned that plain round red beads don't work in cane fruit.
For cane fruit, you'll need berry beads - that's what they are called,
"Berry Beads." Also. like I said, "It doesn't work 100%, but it helps."
Robins are easily fooled but other birds less so, but then, robins do the
worst damage (here anyway). Of course, fledglings won't be fooled either
because the fruit is ripe when they leave the nest.

Jim Fruth
Brambleberry Farm
Pequot Lakes, MN 56472
For jams, jellies & syrups:
www.bberryfarm.com
(218)568-8483 [Store]
(218)831-7018 [My Cell]

Right now, I'm particularly annoyed with the local robins. The late
freeze killed about half of my black raspberry canes, so I've got a
smaller crop than normal. And the robins are eating them before they get
ripe. Usually, I've got plenty of raspberries, so it's no big deal. But
I'm wondering if I'll get any of them this year. The patch is too big -
and too thorny - to use netting, so I guess I'll just live with it. They
laugh at anything I put out to scare them away, unless I stand there
myself (and even then I have to patrol the patch, since they'll sneak in
on one side or another).

Bill



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:11:27 -0400
From: Goodwill at Homefields Farm <sbreneman@yourgoodwill.org>
Subject: [NAFEX] bamboo info
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <466D49FF.6060206@yourgoodwill.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Thanks for the tips on bamboo. Bass, would you have divisions of that
to bring to the Backyard Fruit Growers summer tour?

Scott




nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of nafex digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: math, inches in mm (Stephen Sadler)
2. Re: dwarf almonds (dwoodard@becon.org)
3. Re: Curculio / Surround adhesion question (dwoodard@becon.org)
4. Re: bamboo variety for stakes (Bassem Samaan)
5. chemical thinning question (sjkeipert@highstream.net)
6. Re: Saskatoon Research,Richard Murphy (growyourown@earthlink.net)
7. Re: chemical thinning question (Ed Fackler)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 21:57:37 -0700
From: "Stephen Sadler" <Docshiva@Docshiva.org>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] math, inches in mm
To: <dmnorton@royaloakfarmorchard.com>, "'North American Fruit
Explorers'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <004701c7a8c0$5e7f3290$640fa8c0@docshiva1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

6mm is just barely shy of a quarter inch, not an eighth. 25.4mm per inch.



My allergist's office used to have a sign saying to tell them if, after a
shot, you got a wheal on your arm greater than 25 cm. I'm sure they meant
mm - a 10 inch wheal would need more than one arm.



~ Stephen





_____

From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
dmnorton@royaloakfarmorchard.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 7:27 PM
To: North American Fruit Explorers
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Curculio / Surround adhesion question



Mark,



I have never seen PC really any longer than 5-6mm. I have probably seen
nearly 100 or so and they have all been around that size. For those not
acquainted with the metric measurement of insects, 6mm=1/8".



You spray at petal fall because you want the PC adults to ingest the spray
before they lay eggs so they never have the chance to lay those eggs. If
the spray is done at petal fall before full fruit set, it is in place to be
ingested as the females begin to strike the fruit which can happen as
quickly as 2-3 days from petal fall. I have seen strikes on fruit as small
as 3mm in Liberty apples that set first and grow the fastest. Our Liberty
were at 20mm when most other varieties were at 12 - 15mm. We thin with NAA
between 12 and 15mm and have to use Sevin on anything larger than 15mm. And
if you let PC larvae survive in the fruitlets, they will become the next
year's adults as they survive through June drop. They will stay in the
fruit and never ingest any spray. Hope that answers your questions. If
not, just let me know.





Dennis Norton
Royal Oak Farm Orchard
http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com
http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com
http://www.revivalhymn.com

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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 02:59:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: dwoodard@becon.org
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] dwarf almonds
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <1087.24.244.222.124.1181199548.squirrel@24.244.222.124>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

Lon, are you sure that cooking destroys the cyanide compound?

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada

Lon Rombough wrote:

Sounds like Prunus tenella. Tom Plocher in Hugo, MN said he had some
bushes of that species that produced 300 nuts per bush after -40 F.
The species is sold as an ornamental by several nurseries. They are
bitter, so the nuts have to be cooked to be safely edible.
-Lon Rombough




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 03:11:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: dwoodard@becon.org
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Curculio / Surround adhesion question
To: dmnorton@royaloakfarmorchard.com, "North American Fruit Explorers"
<nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <1094.24.244.222.124.1181200303.squirrel@24.244.222.124>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

Dennis, I have read of a control fro apple maggot involving red fake
apples covered with tanglefoot. Do you know if anything like this works on
curculio? maybe with a fruit scent lure?

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada


Dennis Norton wrote:

You spray at petal fall because you want the PC adults to ingest the spray
before they lay eggs so they never have the chance to lay those eggs. If
the spray is done at petal fall before full fruit set, it is in place to
be ingested as the females begin to strike the fruit which can happen as
quickly as 2-3 days from petal fall. I have seen strikes on fruit as
small as 3mm in Liberty apples that set first and grow the fastest. Our
Liberty were at 20mm when most other varieties were at 12 - 15mm. We thin
with NAA between 12 and 15mm and have to use Sevin on anything larger than
15mm. And if you let PC larvae survive in the fruitlets, they will become
the next year's adults as they survive through June drop. They will stay
in the fruit and never ingest any spray. Hope that answers your
questions. If not, just let me know.


Dennis Norton
Royal Oak Farm Orchard
http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com
http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com
http://www.revivalhymn.com




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 06:08:11 -0500
From: "Bassem Samaan" <bassem@gardener.com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] bamboo variety for stakes
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <20070607110811.D54AC1BF281@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I have collected and used the variety "yellow grove" with best results.
This type of Bamboo is stiff and can be as long as 15'. I use it in the
garden for stakes and as a hoop for growing beans. I also used it as a
stake for shipping trees. I can use the top part of the bamboo which is
thiner, and goes right into the container and used as a support during
shipping. Bass

----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna &/or Kieran"
To: "North American Fruit Explorers"
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] bamboo variety for stakes
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 22:40:57 -0500

Hector Black who owned HIdden Springs Nursery in TN showed us how to
harvest native cane for his nursery, cutting only 3 year canes. I don't
know if his daughter still uses it. We grow the solid stem bamboo, but I
know that's not what I received in a box of trees from McMinnville TN.
Donna
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End of nafex Digest, Vol 53, Issue 36
*************************************






  • Re: [NAFEX] nafex Digest, Vol 53, Issue 36 Persimmon Die back, Anthony Curcio, 06/11/2007

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