North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["tanis cuff" <tanistanis@hotmail.com>]

Two cents from southern WI:  I confirm the observations that where the soil 
is already acidic, that's what you'll tend to see in future soil tests, 
regardless of mulch; analogous for high pH soils.  And high pH water has its 
effect.   For example, gardeners in Madison might be very concerned that 
mulching with oak leaves rather than with maple leaves will make their soil 
so terribly acidic, when the real bent is that Madison soils are calcerous; 
then if they water with ground-water instead of collected rainwater, their 
soil pH may be in fact too high, while the "common knowledge"/ "old wives' 
tales" have them worrying about LOW pH.

tc


----Original Message Follows----
From: "philip sauber" <mrtejas@lycos.com>
Reply-To: mrtejas@lycos.com,North American Fruit Explorers 
<nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Pine trees and soil acidity
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:29:17 -0500

I have been using mulch from the city with the result too high pH in my soil 
at 7.5.  The city water is also high at 8.5.  The result has been clorotic 
leaves on citrus and muscadines, yellowish with green veins.  The soil 
analysis shows high levels of micronutrients and nitrogen.  High pH makes 
them unavailable.  The recommendation from the county agent is pine needles 
or peat moss for mulch.
Phil SE Texas z8b/9a with winters since 1989 z9b!

http://members.fortunecity.com/pjsauber/

--

--------- Original Message ---------

DATE: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:55:33
From: "del stubbs" <pinewoodel@hotmail.com>
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Cc:

>This discussion is timely for me, background:
>Our farm is on clay hills, not a blueberry in site, mixed hardwoods and 
hay.
>Four years ago I dug out a chunk of a clay hillside and replaced 18" of 
soil
>with thirds each of sphagnum, sand and garden soil. Planted 3 kinds of
>northern hardy low bush blueberries for my wife (who grew up picking wild
>ones). I even added sulpher acidifiers. Most have died or grown so poorly
>they are still 6" tall.
>So I took some good nafex advice and bought a bunch more, planted them in
>the deepest organic matter soil we have at the bottom of a swail, a small
>alluvial fan of sorts, though well drained, soil about 16" deep.
>The neighbors, only a mile away are in pure sand, lots of jack and red 
pine,
>so shortly I was going to go there and get a couple loads of old and new
>pine needles to spread on top of the soil around the new blueberries.
>I would guess the idea that this will acidify my soil is more from young 
and
>old husbands, than older wives.
>I have access to pine shavings as well as oak leaves.
>Pine needles, oak leaves, pine sawdust, rotted logs.......it is starting 
to
>sound all the same,
>Any more clarification to guide my mulch gathering?
>Thanks, Del n. MN z 2/3
>
>Del Stubbs  www.pinewoodforge.com  ag zone2/3
>
>
>>From: Jim F <bonfire58_2000@yahoo.com>
>>Reply-To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>>To: NAFEX@lists.ibiblio.org
>>Subject: [NAFEX] Pine trees and soil acidity
>>Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:57:14 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>      It would appear that I should have added more subject matter to my
>>letter about pine needles and soil acidity:  Needles from conifers do not
>>make their soil acidic, however, these plants are extremely adaptable and
>>will thrive in almost any soil, even in soil that is so acidic that 
nothing
>>much else will grow there.  If we add lime to soil, the pH may rise and 
the
>>pines will still thrive.
>>      It is a shame that whomever started the rumor about needles and
>>acidity failed to test the needles to verify the hpothesis because 
needles
>>are such a wonderful mulch!  Needle are slow to get wet and, so, allow 
most
>>rainwater to penetrate down to the soil, whereas, most other mulches need
>>to become saturated before the soil gets wet.  A second 'plus' is that
>>needles are slow to break down so the gardener doesn't necessarily need 
to
>>keep adding every year.
>>      A third point comes in the form of complaints that little or 
nothing
>>will grow under conifers.  It certainly isn't because the soil is too 
acid.
>>  It is because the conifer canopy tends to shut out all direct sunlight
>>from reaching the ground.  Nothing(?) will grow because there is no
>>sunlight to nurture life.
>>Jim Fruth
>>Pequot Lakes, MN
>>
>>

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