North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["Mike Levine" <mlevine@umich.edu>]

Del,
I would be wary of any oak leaves or debris from a site that is calcareous
(alkaline).  Oaks pump up the alkalinity from deep below and shed it in
their leaves.  Where I'm at I'd put oak leaves in my garden beds to
decompose into rich, high pH organic matter, full of nutrients.  Mostly, I'd
make sure that whatever/whereever you gather is from an area that is acidic
deep down and on the surface.  Sounds like the sandy site would be good to
collect from, but make sure by doing a pH test and ask your neighbors how
far down the sand goes.

Mike Levine
Ann Arbor, MI
zone 5b

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "del stubbs" <pinewoodel@hotmail.com>
To: <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Pine trees and soil acidity


> This discussion is timely for me, background:
> Our farm is on clay hills, not a blueberry in site, mixed hardwoods and
hay.
> Four years ago I dug out a chunk of a clay hillside and replaced 18" of
soil
> with thirds each of sphagnum, sand and garden soil. Planted 3 kinds of
> northern hardy low bush blueberries for my wife (who grew up picking wild
> ones). I even added sulpher acidifiers. Most have died or grown so poorly
> they are still 6" tall.
> So I took some good nafex advice and bought a bunch more, planted them in
> the deepest organic matter soil we have at the bottom of a swail, a small
> alluvial fan of sorts, though well drained, soil about 16" deep.
> The neighbors, only a mile away are in pure sand, lots of jack and red
pine,
> so shortly I was going to go there and get a couple loads of old and new
> pine needles to spread on top of the soil around the new blueberries.
> I would guess the idea that this will acidify my soil is more from young
and
> old husbands, than older wives.
> I have access to pine shavings as well as oak leaves.
> Pine needles, oak leaves, pine sawdust, rotted logs.......it is starting
to
> sound all the same,
> Any more clarification to guide my mulch gathering?
> Thanks, Del n. MN z 2/3
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Del Stubbs  www.pinewoodforge.com  ag zone2/3
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Jim F <bonfire58_2000@yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> >To: NAFEX@lists.ibiblio.org
> >Subject: [NAFEX] Pine trees and soil acidity
> >Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:57:14 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >      It would appear that I should have added more subject matter to my
> >letter about pine needles and soil acidity:  Needles from conifers do not
> >make their soil acidic, however, these plants are extremely adaptable and
> >will thrive in almost any soil, even in soil that is so acidic that
nothing
> >much else will grow there.  If we add lime to soil, the pH may rise and
the
> >pines will still thrive.
> >      It is a shame that whomever started the rumor about needles and
> >acidity failed to test the needles to verify the hpothesis because
needles
> >are such a wonderful mulch!  Needle are slow to get wet and, so, allow
most
> >rainwater to penetrate down to the soil, whereas, most other mulches need
> >to become saturated before the soil gets wet.  A second 'plus' is that
> >needles are slow to break down so the gardener doesn't necessarily need
to
> >keep adding every year.
> >      A third point comes in the form of complaints that little or
nothing
> >will grow under conifers.  It certainly isn't because the soil is too
acid.
> >  It is because the conifer canopy tends to shut out all direct sunlight
> >from reaching the ground.  Nothing(?) will grow because there is no
> >sunlight to nurture life.
> >Jim Fruth
> >Pequot Lakes, MN
> >
> >
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