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nafex - Re: [NAFEX] caterpillar stings and brown recluse bites too

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  • From: Keith Benson <kgbenson@mindspring.com>
  • To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [NAFEX] caterpillar stings and brown recluse bites too
  • Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 21:25:22 -0400



Lutesville wrote:

There is zero evidence that they are efficacious, and used improperly,
or jury rigged, even dangerous.

Keith


Sorry, Keith. There isn't zero evidence. As a beekeeper and someone who
removes bees from walls, I can show evidence, if only the medical community
would listen.

Not all evidence is even remotely equal. My experience with folks when they say something like this is that the evidence is anecdotal and circumstantial, and that there are a multitude of explanations that can fit the "data" presented. Nothing wrong with one's experience or anecdote - but it rarely constitutes proof - a great lead into a study that might demonstrate a causal relationship, but proof? Nope.


Ginda just gave a substantial amount of anecdotal evidence, and I can share
my own. Out of 27 stings I received on one project, only three ever bothered
me after the day I was stung. I couldn't reach those three to shock them.


Ok, let me re-phrase that, there is no repeatable, peer reviewed, statistically verifiable evidence that it is efficacious. No study has ever shown that it is as effective as doing well, nothing at all. Might it actually work? Anything is possible - but so far, no one can say. There are people who think it works, but thinking it works, and it working are two different things.

When My husband had a huge, purple, itchy lump from some sort of bite or
sting, we shocked it and in no time it started fading. The same sort of
swellings haven't usually been so easy to get rid of, and I have a hole in
my side (not, fortunately, very large) to prove it.

When I got stung on the nose, I went straight to the tens unit and shocked
the spot, I think it is called the septum, between the nostrils. Anyway, I
could feel sone swelling before I shocked it, but no more ever developed,
and the spot was less than a mosquito bite. You couldn't see any swelling at
all.

The medical community and the FDA are not known for their reasonable
consideration of evidence.

No one is immune to their subjectivity. I don't believe anyone would suggest that the medical community or the FDA are infallible.

Who stands to gain from a shock therapy that can
be administered from a 9v battery? There is no money to be made from the
therapy, so nobody is willing to undertake the expensive studies required by
the government to be able to say there is theraputic benefit to something.

MMmmmmm, not all research is entirely monetarily driven. Heck, as this costs nothing, a preliminary study by a halfway intelligent med student with a buddy who knows stats could be done for . . . . the price of a battery.

It's the same thing that has happened with herbs in this country.

Actually herbs are a thriving zillion dollar industry - in large part because there is no evidence as to their actual efficacy.

So, getting back to fruit: Did you know you can puree a piece of acidic
fruit, like a strawberry, and smooth the puree on your face for a treatment
that is just like those expensive alpya-hydroxy acid products in the store?
The FDA won't tell, since nobody makes money on it, but your grand-parents
knew.

This is not the mandate of the FDA. Their mandate (paraphrased here) is to ensure that products that are not safe and efficacious are on the market. Not to promote one thing over another.

In short, we disagree. But this is not fruit so I will desist after this email.

In the meantime Stan the Citrusman from SC has graciously given me some budwood and shown me a nifty graft that is sort of a combo tbud and rind graft. Easy as pie and he swears it is tremendously successful. Wish me luck!

Keith








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