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  • From: "Raby, Brian {D204~Indianapolis}" <BRIAN.RABY@ROCHE.COM>
  • To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: RE: [NAFEX] pruning/training apples
  • Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 08:53:44 -0500

All,

Speaking of training trees, what do you think is the cheapest and most
efficient way of staking these drawfing trees (material wise)? Are there
steel or wooden poles, aluminum conduits that I can get from
Lowes/Menards/Home Depot that will fill the bill for me? Do you stake them
in a line; do you surround them with three poles and secure them with wire
and cutup hoses? I lost a tree this winter from the high winds we got and
I'm realizing that I need to give my apples better support (they are on bud 9)

thanks,

Brian Raby
Sheridan, IN zone 5b

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Norris [mailto:cousinphil@acadia.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 8:22 AM
To: North American Fruit Explorers
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] pruning/training apples


Ginda,

I had the same problem with a little King David sapling that I had tied
to a single stake last year. I also had an unstaked Jonathan on Bud 9
which seemed bound and determined to grow anyway but straight up.

It is a well known fact that a sapling tied closely to a single stake
will tend to bend away from it. This is because the side toward the
stake gets less light. In experiments with transparent stakes the
bending did not occur. I suggest that you pull out your one stake and
drive in 2 or 3 five foot stakes at about a foot and a half radius from
the tree. Then use some soft twine to guy the tree at the crucial
points which will make it stand up straight. Once the tree will stand
straight by itself remove the strings because a stronger root system
will develop if the tree is allowed to sway in the breeze. I imagine
that the tree will straighten up in one growing season. My King David
did. The Jonathan I have had to keep guyed up for several years to
nearby rocks and roots and it seems to be doing well even though it
looks a little funny. The apples are small but tasty.

Phil

On Monday, March 10, 2003, at 10:33 PM, list@ginda.us wrote:

> I have a three year old jonathan on M111. When I ordered it, the
> vendor (maybe Hilltop?) apologized for not having any big ones left.
> When it arrived, I marveled at the paucity of roots - one or two
> threads trailing out of a stick below the graft. It also had some
> damage to the top from shipping, but I might have headed the tree
> anyway.
>
> It sprouted well enough, and seems healthy. I had a bit of deer
> pruning the first winter, and some caterpillar damage the second
> summer. It is now about 3/4" thick and perhaps 5' tall, of which
> about a foot is last year's growth. I have some promisingly arranged
> twigs that I hope will become a low scaffold. I hope to get a second
> set of scaffold branches going a little higher this year.
>
> My problem is that the leader is flopping to the side, and I'd like to
> to grow more straight. The tree is staked, but the cloth ties I've
> used tend to slide down, leaving the top to wave in the wind. any
> suggestions? Should I tape the tree to the pole? Remove a foot or
> more from the top and hope it grows back thicker? Apply more
> nitrogen? Plant a new tree to distract me from this one? (Actually,
> I do have an Ashmead's kernal on order from Fedco for the spring.)
>
> Thanks,
> Ginda Fisher
> eastern MA, zone 6
>
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>From John.Mosko@engelhard.com Tue Mar 11 10:56:43 2003
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Subject: Cups per 1/2 lb - Re: [NAFEX] Answering the Surround questions
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You're welcome. Because powder packing varies - even from the top to the
bottom of the bag - volume measurements of powders can never be certain.
With that said, 1/2 lb is about three level cups. John




list@ginda.us

Sent by: To: North American Fruit
Explorers
nafex-bounces@lists.i <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>

biblio.org cc:

Subject: Re: [NAFEX]
Answering the
Surround questions

03/10/2003 10:11 PM

Please respond to

North American Fruit

Explorers









Thanks for all the info. Just one question - how much Surround is a
pound? Can you give that in cups or some other easy volume measure?

Thanks,
Ginda Fisher

On Monday, March 10, 2003, at 06:42 PM, John.Mosko@engelhard.com wrote:

>
> I just caught up on my NAFEX messages and saw that there was a long
> string
> of questions about Surround a week or so ago. Maybe I can help out
> with
> answers.
>
> Can I re-use leftover mix? Yes, you can - in hand held or back-pack
> sprayers. If you have leftover Surround slurry, up-end your sprayer
> and
> blow out the remaining air. This will relieve the pressure and clean
> out
> the nozzle at the same time. Store the leftover in a cool place. You
> need
> not even loosen the top (handle/pump shaft). When ready to use, shake
> the
> soft-settle up, re-pump up, and spray. Saving it makes for convenient
> touching-up. I wouldn't advise keeping the mix over 2 weeks in hot
> summer
> weather. After using the second time, rinse out and allow to dry
> thoroughly.
> I would not save slurry in commercial sprayers unless, maybe, if it
> had a
> strong agitator blade that would clear the pump intake.
>
> Is Surround made with the same substance as in kaopectate? Actually
> no.
> Kaopectate brand of anti-dairrheal hasn't used kaolin since 1987.
> Currently, it has used a special clay with higher sorptivity called
> attapulgite. The kaolin used in the original kaopectate was actually
> quite
> different from that used in Surround.
>
> A comment about eastern conventional growers being dissappointed -
> Surround
> is only used by conventional eastern tree fruit growers for certain
> specific uses such as reducing Stayman cracking and some sunburn
> reduction.
> We didn't plan it this way, but Surround just has more utility in dry
> areas
> - it simply lasts longer there and also offers valuable sunburn damage
> reduction. Eastern organic growers use Surround for plum curculio,
> pear
> psylla, and apple maggot control.
>
> Surround's value to the hobby orchardist - As an avid hobbyist with 25
> Bud-9 and M-9 dwarfing rootstock apple, pear, and cherry trees I can
> say
> that Surround is a fine product for the hobbyist. A little Surround
> goes a
> long way hand-sprayed on dwarf trees. I start with 1/2 lb per gallon
> then go to 1/4 lb. per gallon after the third or fourth spray. After a
> foundation has been established , I can treat all the trees with a
> gallon
> or two of spray - that uses about a 1/2 lb. of Surround powder. I find
> that if I aim to coat the apples, the overspray is sufficient for the
> leaves. Coating the apples is more important than covering leaves.
> (Pears
> need underside of leaf coverage to control pear psylla).
>
> I personally employ a soft apple insect program in NJ that uses
> Surround
> for plum curculio and apple maggot. Secondary pests are controlled or
> neutralized by Surround. Lady beetles operate freely in my
> Surround-treated trees and mop up the green aphids very nicely. I
> need to
> spray one carefully timed malathion or Imidan for 2nd generation
> codling
> moth or I get significant losses. I tank-mix in any fungicides that I
> need but since I use my mower to vaccuum up my fallen leaves in the
> late
> autumn, and I apply a copper-dormant oil spray, I have little scab or
> powdery mildew - even on disease-prone cultivars. I did see some cedar
> apple rust coming in last season. I may apply myclobutanyl (ag name
> is
> Nova) for CAR.
>
> When I'm ready to eat the apples, I put the Surround-treated apples
> into
> one side of the filled sink with a drop or two or fruit cleaning
> detergent
> (optional). I give them a rubbing while rinsing under a faucet or
> under
> water. The film comes off easily but you do have to rub, albeit
> gently,
> the whole fruit. It helps to wear thin cloth gloves. Of course, if
> I'm in
> the yard, I rub it off on my shirt! The fine particles actually buff
> the
> skin to a real shine. I address commercial washing in the Pomona
> article
> below.
>
> Are spreaders needed? There are built in spreaders in Surround so
> generally
> none is needed. The only exception is on very waxy surfaces like
> mid-season apple (if just starting Surround then for sunburn) or
> watermelons. In these cases, you can use the lowest labeled amount of
> a
> spreader - but just in the first spray.
> If you don't have a spreader handy , you can use an 1/8 rate of Safer
> soap
> concentrate in the Surround mix.
>
> Surround residues on fruit in the supermarket? - I admit I get excited
> when
> I spy a trace of Surround on a Red D'Anjou or a Granny Smith, Braeburn,
> etc., apple in the market. Surround was used on 50% of the WA pear
> acreage
> last season and 20% of the WA apple acreage.
>
> Most of the pear use is for pear psylla. That program uses three
> pre-bloom
> sprays of Surround to disrupt psylla egg lay, then one or two sprays at
> fruit set. Since the Surround sprays stop when the fruit is small, you
> wouldn't see any residue on those pears. You may see a trace on Red
> D'Anjou because they are sprayed with Surround later in the season to
> make
> them smoother and redder. Surround is a great psylla material -
> even in
> the east. You get a nice carry over effect since the Surround forms a
> thin
> mineral skin on the trunk and branches after a while. That skin remains
> repellant to the overwintering adult psylla.
>
> WA apples are sprayed heavily for sunburn damage reduction. Although
> WA
> packers wash them well , you may see a fruit that gets through with
> some
> Surround traces.
>
> Interestingly, sometimes the stains are not Surround. Even before
> Surround
> was commercial, I examined supermarket apples closely and saw that
> many had
> stem end stains; probably from road dust accumulation. Sometimes,
> white
> streaks on the sides are from apple wax that dried that way.
>
> Where to buy Surround - As someone accurately commented, shop around.
> If
> you are a commercial grower, even if small, you should be using
> "ag-labeled" product. As you may know, the manufacturer has no control
> over pricing once they sell the product to a distributor - it's
> actually
> illegal, a form of price fixing and my company Engelhard is
> to-the-letter
> scrupulous. There is a list of distributors towards he end of the
> attached
> Pomona article.
>
> The "it's just kaolin" issue - I'll spare you any marketing
> razzle-dazzle
> but the Pomona article I wrote last year (attached) explains what
> considerations we needed to have to make Surround a practical
> commercial
> technology. One thing I forgot to mention is that plain clays usually
> have
> high respirable crystalline silica contents. Crystalline silica is a
> respiratory carcinogen (also abrasive as anything to nozzles).
> Surround is
> processed to contain no measurable crystalline silica. The analogy I
> like
> to use is that Surround is to clay as jet fuel is to crude oil. They
> are
> from the same original raw material but the crude form is effectively
> non-performing for the use intented.
>
> The "large block boost" - For several years, organic growers had told
> me of
> essentially complete control of plum curculio. At the same time, we
> had
> sponsored many PC studies by extension scientists. In the extension
> studies, untreated controls are used. These control trees are often
> near
> and sometimes adjacent to the Surround -treated tree. But Surround
> averaged only 50% damage reduction over many extension trials. So,
> what was
> the deal?
> Turns out that Surround works markedly better when used in a large
> block.
> It makes sense, Since Surround has little direct toxicity (but high
> repellancy), Surround is vulnerable to re-infestation from the huge
> pool
> of insects in the untreated controls. In a large block, the insects
> sense
> the hostile environment and leave the area. This phenomena occurs
> mostly
> with insects that migrate into orchards. We are quite sure that the
> efficacy boost happens with leafhoppers and sharpshooters, pear psylla,
> plum curculio, maybe to a lesser extent with codling moth, and probably
> with apple maggot (although Surround apple maggot control looks great
> in
> any kind of trial, equal to Guthion).
>
> A 2002 study at Michigan State showed over 90% PC damage reduction in a
> large block study. This was higher than we had ever gotten in station
> trials. The PC pressure was even brutal - essentially at 100% damage
> level.
>
> The take away is: If you are going to trial Surround, do an entire
> block.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Here was my article for Pomona early last year if you care to read
> it...
>
> Surround Crop Protectant: A Unique Tool for the Fruit Grower
>
> By John Mosko
>
> Surround Crop Protectant is a unique broad-spectrum agricultural crop
> protectant for reducing damage from various insect pests. It can also
> reduce heat stress and sunburn damage. Surround works by forming a
> white
> barrier coating on crops that is specially designed to repel insects
> and to
> allow usable light through while blocking harmful infrared (IR) and
> ultraviolet (UV) light. It is a registered pesticide and is listed for
> organic use. Surround is soft on bees, ladybeetles and lacewings.
>
> The technology behind Surround was co-developed by Engelhard
> Corporation
> and the U.S. Department of Agriculture - Agricultural Research Service
> (USDA-ARS) and is referred to as "particle film" technology.
> Comprised of
> specially modified particles of kaolin, a naturally occurring material,
> Surround is mixed in water and sprayed onto crops. Upon drying, a fine
> white film results. If the film is applied to an edible part of the
> plant,
> the film is washed off at harvest or discontinued early in the season
> and
> allowed to weather off.
>
> Commercial success
>
> Surround has been used heavily on apple and pear crops, with rapidly
> increasing use in citrus, grapes, nuts and row crops such as tomatoes.
> Over 90% of sales are to conventional and IPM growers, and most usage
> is
> west of the Rocky Mountains.
>
> Pears
> Surround works as well, or better, on pear psylla than any other
> product on
> the market?while helping to produce better color and a smoother finish.
> With more than 60,000 acre-treatments in Washington and Oregon last
> spring
> and summer, it looked like winter!
>
> Growers of D'Anjou and Comice apply Surround during the summer for
> fruit
> quality and heat stress relief as well as insect suppression. Eastern
> pear
> growers for baby food have adopted Surround as well. Rainfastness in
> pears
> is not an issue in the East since the pre-bloom sprays adhere well to
> bark,
> and later sprays coat the rain-protected leaf undersides where the pear
> psylla nymphs are active.
>
> Apples
> In Western states, Surround has been tremendously successfully in
> reducing
> apple sunburn damage. More than 60,000 acre-treatments were applied on
> apples in 2001. Color is typically improved on many varieties
> including
> Granny Smith, Jonagold, Golden Delicious, Cameo, and Pink Lady. At the
> same
> time, Surround suppresses insects such as leafhoppers. We expect that
> Surround will be labeled for lacanobia in 2002.
>
> Surround offers terrific economic benefits to apple growers. Less
> than 100
> dollars' worth of Surround per acre cut sunburn damage in half,
> according
> to two years of independent studies in Washington and other hot areas.
> Even
> in a moderate 10% damage year, that could mean 5% more fruit, or 30 to
> 40
> boxes per acre. To estimate the payback potential based on the
> studies and
> grower experience, multiply extra boxes by the price you may get per
> box
> and subtract the Surround cost. Some growers apply at delayed dormant
> for
> leafrollers, but most applications begin in late May or early June as
> temperatures go up. This timing avoids interference with leafminer
> predators while suppressing lacanobia and sunburn damage.
>
> Grapes
> Surround has suppressed every type of leafhopper/sharpshooter that it
> has
> faced, including the notorious glassy-winged sharpshooter (GWSS) that
> is
> vectoring Pierce's Disease in California vineyards. Oviposition was cut
> down to almost zero in a large-scale pilot project conducted near
> Bakersfield, California. Since Surround is a powerful feeding
> deterrent,
> leafhoppers don't spread the disease, then die, as with the leading
> systemic and knockdown pesticides. Based on the trial results, more
> than
> 10,000 acre-treatments were already applied post-harvest this fall.
> Studies are showing brix increases, presumably due to heat stress
> reduction. Wine grapes are sprayed until veraison; table and raisin
> grapes
> until fruit set, then all may be sprayed post-harvest when GWSS are
> still
> very active. In the Eastern U.S., usage would be for Japanese beetles,
> rose chafer, leafhoppers, and heat stress relief in hot regions.
>
> Western citrus
> Surround suppresses thrips, GWSS, and sunburn damage while reducing
> heat
> stress. Florida studies look promising for improving vigor and
> suppression
> of the diaprepes root weevil.
>
> Nuts
> Surround offers sunburn reduction with codling moth, husk fly, and
> black
> and yellow aphid suppression.
>
> Stone fruit
> Studies on thrips are very encouraging, and post-harvest cherry heat
> stress
> reduction trials are underway. Surround may be a valuable tool for the
> organic/sustainable grower for rose chafer and Japanese beetle, while
> offering some reduction of oriental fruit moth damage.
>
> Other fruits, other benefits
> Surround may offer relief to stress-prone fruit varieties in marginal
> climatic areas. Studies suggest reduction in Stayman apple cracking,
> and
> Surround can fight thrips, leafhoppers, and other pests on minor fruit
> crops.
>
> Organic usage
> Surround WP is listed by the Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI)
> for
> use in organic production. Surround WP is the only organic suppressant
> for
> plum curculio that we know of, plus it offers good apple maggot
> suppression. Organic-minded growers have found that suppression of the
> plum
> curculio can eliminate use of organophosphate products so they can go
> transitional.
>
> The secret is to keep the young fruit covered! The most common organic
> program for plum curculio is about six to eight weekly sprays starting
> at
> fruit set. This program gives suppression of the first flight of
> codling
> moth, too. Applying only to this point will leave a negligible to very
> light residue at harvest.
>
> Surround is tank-mixable with lime-sulfur and wettable sulfur and
> studies
> have shown that this combination can reduce disease like apple scab,
> powdery mildew, sooty blotch and flyspeck.
>
> Sustainable/low-spray growers who use organophosphates can tank mix
> Surround for improved protection.
>
> Surround can also help organic growers fight cucumber beetles, thrips,
> pear
> psylla, leafhoppers, Japanese beetle, and some aphids.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------------------
> The technology
>
> Surround is composed of specially sized and shaped mineral particles.
> The
> base substance of the active ingredient in Surround is a unique type of
> kaolin. Adjuvants in the WP formulation allow it to spread and stick
> in a
> controlled way so that the particles perform to their fullest
> potential.
> Surround is so unique; its use is protected by seven US patents.
>
> · Most, if not all, particles block light and can also block gas
> transpiration. Yet Surround allows usable light and gases to pass
> through.
> In fact, Surround particles reflect infrared light, which lowers heat
> on
> the leaves by around 8 degrees F and on the fruit by up to 15 degrees
> F in
> summer weather. Light blockage is a real concern: we know of a grower
> who
> sprayed a generic clay on his trees, then needed to wash it off quickly
> when the trees started suffering from blocked light.
>
> · Many particles other than Surround stick to, or grow into to the
> fruit's natural wax, making the particles difficult or impossible to
> remove
> at harvest. Surround particles are uniquely shaped to give a
> controlled
> amount of "bite" into the fruit skin without undo sticking.
>
> · Surround particles are designed for insect irritation. Insects
> seem
> to just push some other types aside. Surround particles are difficult
> for
> insects to "groom" off.
>
> · Surround contains minimal abrasive components that abrade nozzles
> and
> pump gaskets.
>
> · Surround has very low toxicity.
>
> · Surround was designed to be practical to use. It mixes well,
> settles
> slowly to a soft settle, and--this is crucial--spreads evenly on fruit
> and
> foliage.
>
> · Surround has a degree of rainfastness but is not difficult to
> remove
> at harvest with packing line washing equipment. The particles are
> friable
> for increased insect irritation.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> Safety
> Surround is arguably one of the safest pest control products on the
> market:
> · Surround is exempt from requirements of a tolerance for residue
> per
> the EPA.
> · All adjuvants are in the safest EPA category (Class 4).
> · There is no pre-harvest interval.
> · The ingredients in Surround are on the FDA list for food use.
>
>
> Recent news
> · In a large pilot project in Kern County, California, Surround
> showed
> almost complete ovipositional control and strong feeding reduction and
> repellency of the glassy-winged sharpshooter. Other leafhoppers are
> controlled equally well.
>
> · The 2001 label was amended to allow sulfur tank-mixes. Surround
> tank-mixed with lime-sulfur (L-S) and wettable sulfur (S) gave results
> close to conventional control on scab, powdery mildew, sooty blotch and
> flyspeck. A tank-mix of 3 gallons L-S, 5 lbs. S, and 25 lbs. of
> Surround
> performed very well. After petal fall, reduce to 1/2 gallon L-S, 5
> lbs. S,
> and use 37.5 to 25 lbs. Surround. All mixes are per 100 gallons.
> This can
> be great news for certified organic growers with disease problems.
>
> · Apples and blueberries coated with Surround applied before and
> during
> the apple/blueberry maggot fly flight showed almost complete
> ovipositional
> deterrence in University studies.
>
> · Grower and university apple studies confirmed the ability to
> suppress
> plum curculio and the need to reapply during rainy periods.
>
> · Pear psylla studies confirmed that green tip sprays are important
> for
> ovipositional deterrence. Surround performed well in eastern trials
> despite the rainy season. Although not recommended, Surround can be
> used
> for psylla rescues.
>
> · An organic-oriented study that used Surround only on scab
> resistant
> cultivars showed usable fruit jumped to 85% vs. 25 % in the untreated
> control. Interestingly, cedar apple rust was partly suppressed by
> Surround
> in this season-long study.
>
> · Japanese beetle suppression, due to repellency and feeding
> deterrence,
> is excellent if applications are made at first adult emergence. Lab
> bioassays (no-choice studies) showed surprisingly high knockdown after
> 24
> hours.
>
> · The lacanobia fruit worm has been controlled in multi-year
> Washington
> State University studies.
>
>
>
> Usage Points
>
> See the label for details, but rates and concentrations are generally
> 37.5
> to 50 lbs. per 100 gallons at first then 25 lbs. per 100 gallons after
> a
> film has been established. Rate per acre depends on the size of the
> foliage canopy. Maintenance of coverage is crucial. Apply enough
> fluid to
> get to near-drip. Complete wetting of the fruit surface helps to
> foster
> good adhesion of subsequent sprays. Dwarf trees allow the most
> efficient
> usage of Surround. Large trees are problematic due to difficulty in
> obtaining coverage. In hand-held or backpack sprayers, use 1/4 to 1/2
> lb.
> per gallon. Aim at the fruit to cover them well and the overspray will
> cover the leaves.
>
> Generally, applications are every 7 to 14 days, more often during rainy
> periods. Since Surround is a barrier-type product, the plant part to
> be
> protected must be covered during pest infestation. During dry
> periods, the
> intervals can be widened, but during rainy periods re-sprays at short
> intervals can be necessary -- especially on primary pests. On most
> fruit
> skins, later season applications last longer than early season
> applications. Coating the leaf undersides is important for pests like
> pear
> psylla and some aphids.
>
> The cooling effect of Surround will delay maturity 3 to 7 days on most
> tree
> fruit.
>
> Post-harvest wash-off
> For the fresh fruit market, you'll need to have a large, well-equipped
> fruit washing line if you apply past 8 weeks after fruit set. Short
> lines
> do not get the white out of the stem and calyx end unless you have
> pressure
> washing. Surround can usually be applied to processing fruit until
> harvest. Hobbyists can rub the fruit under running water. Wearing
> cloth
> gloves helps if you have a lot of fruit.
>
> While educating the consumer at pick-your-owns can be a challenge, some
> growers do with signs and a pamphlet called "Why are the crops white"
> that
> is available.
>
> Where to find Surround
> Surround is sold only through distributors. The following sell
> ag-labeled
> product in 25 lb. bags:
>
> · Most UAP locations in the Northeast and Great Lakes:
> www.uap.com/distribution-frames.html
> · Many distributors and dealers in WA, OR, and CA
> · Many Fertrell : www.fertrell.com
> · Seven Springs Farm in VA offers Surround WP via mail order:
> www.7springsfarm.com
> · Fedco in ME offers Surround WP via mail order: www.fedcoseeds.com
> · Peaceful Valley Farm Supply, Inc. in CA offers Surround WP via
> mail
> order: www.groworganic.com
>
> · For home use Gardens Alive! Catalogue and web site Offers
> Surround At
> Home Crop Protectant in 5, 10, and 25 lb. bags: www.gardensalive.com.
> Surround At Home is the only version of Surround labeled for home
> gardening uses.
> ###
>
> John is the marketing manager for Surround Crop Protectants, Engelhard
> Corporation, Iselin, NJ 08830-0770 and an avid tree fruit hobbyist.
> For
> more information, visit www.engelhard.com/surround.
>
>
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