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  • From: "loneroc" <loneroc@mwt.net>
  • To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [NAFEX] MN 447
  • Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 19:29:30 -0600

Hi John,

I'm quite sure you're right. That didn't prevent Bear Creek from selling
it, however. Since it has not been patented, I'm not sure that the U. of MN
has any legal ground to prevent it's propagation by those who have not
signed a non-propagation agreement. Are there plant patent attorneys among
us for an expert opinion? Can an unpatented plant cultivar be tied up
forever?

Not that I would want to cross the U on this issue. The very finest apples
that I grow here are from their program. Perhaps if it does well for you in
Maine, you might convince Dave to allow you to name and propagate it for
limited home use in zones 3 and 4 to perhaps 5. I suspect it will always
remain little known, although if is truly exquisite/unique in flavor, the
foodies might take it up as a passing fad!

Steve Herje, Lone Rock, WI, USDA zone 3

P.S. I missed meeting you at the NAFEX convention in MN last year.
Perhaps I'll be able to make the NH one in August.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Bunker" <jbunker@gwi.net>
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] MN 447


> Steve, Betty et al,
>
> For final clarification, perhaps we should get David Bedford of the
> Minnesota Horticulture Research Center involved in the discussion. I'm
under
> the impression that the University does not want it being sold, nor do
they
> want people trading wood. However, I could well be wrong!
>
> Regards,
>
> John Bunker
> Fedco
> Palermo Maine
>
>
>
>
> on 3/5/03 10:28 PM, Betty Mayfield at bmayfield@columbia-center.org wrote:
>
> > Steve,
> >
> > Thanks for clarifying the matter. From what John had said about having
to
> > sign a non-propagation agreement, I thought the university was trying to
> > prevent people from getting the apple even if they wanted it. But if you
> > got it from a nursery, then it is out in commerce.
> >
> > Betty Mayfield
> >
> >
> > At 04:19 PM 3/5/03 -0600, you wrote:
> >> Hi Betty,
> >>
> >> The University of Minnesota has numbered over 2000 fruits for further
> >> evaluation. MN447 is a decades old plant. Given the excellent record
they
> >> have of contributing new cold hardy fruits I wouldn't begrudge them the
> >> choice of what to select for introduction. One can't introduce them
all!
> >>
> >> Although the U of MN hasn't introduced the MN447 apple, it is widely
> >> available among NAFEXers. I purchased a whip from Bear Creek several
years
> >> ago, but have since grafted it on a seedling. My assumption is that
I'll
> >> want a lot more than a Bud 9 will bear for me. From the sound of
peoples
> >> evaluations on this list, the apple has a very narrow latitudinal band
for
> >> successful culture, and if that's true, would be a poor candidate for
> >> commercial introduction in any case.
> >>
> >> Steve Herje, Lone Rock, WI USDA Zone 3
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Betty Mayfield" <bmayfield@columbia-center.org>
> >> To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 2:41 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] MN 447
> >>
> >>
> >>> To the list,
> >>>
> >>> Although I don't have any knowledge of the MN 447 apple, this apparent
> >>> attitude of the University of Minnesota disturbs me.
> >>>
> >>> Some of you have said you like the apple, some don't, but according to
> >>> David Bedford "they thought it was too strongly flavored for most
people"
> >>> and won't name it. Apparently they have no plans to distribute it
either.
> >>>
> >>> It seems to me that a university has a moral if not a legal obligation
to
> >>> make the results of its research available to the public and not act
as a
> >>> censor of public taste. Otherwise this knowledge and variety could be
> >> lost.
> >>>
> >>> Or have I misunderstood, and is the university planning to market the
> >>> apple variety on its own to generate income?
> >>>
> >>> Betty Mayfield
> >>>
> >>> At 10:39 AM 3/5/03 -0500, you wrote:
> >>>> Lucky,
> >>>>
> >>>> I received scionwood of MN 447 from David Bedford (U Minnesota) a few
> >> years
> >>>> ago and fruited it for the first year in 2002. I liked it very much.
I
> >> like
> >>>> flavorful apples. It has one of the most unusual flavors I've ever
> >> tasted
> >>>> in an apple. One friend who also tried it said immediately it tasted
> >> like
> >>>> sugar cane. He's from Cape Verde. I've never tasted sugar cane, but
I
> >>>> would say that I could taste molasses.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't believe U Minn has any plans to name 447. As I recall, David
> >> said
> >>>> that they thought it was too strongly flavored for most people. I
signed
> >> a
> >>>> non-propagation agreement before I received wood. I don't know how
well
> >> set
> >>>> up the University is for scion distribution. I have a bit of wood I
> >> could
> >>>> send out as long as David gave me permission-which might include
> >> submitting
> >>>> a non-prop agreement to the University.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you like strongly flavored apples, I suggest you try King David,
> >> Sutton,
> >>>> Newtown Spitzenburg, and Milo Gibson.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> John Bunker
> >>>> Fedco Palermo ME where it's snowing again.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> on 3/4/03 1:18 PM, Lucky Pittman at lucky.pittman@murraystate.edu
wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Folks,
> >>>>> I've been seeing recent references to this apple(MN 447) over on the
> >>>>> Gardenweb Forums, referenced as one of the parents of Keepsake and
> >> Sweet
> >>>>> 16, with glowing references to its flavor.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Anybody on the list fruiting it in their orchard, or can anyone
> >> comment
> >>>> on it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Lucky Pittman
> >>>>> USDA Zone 6
> >>>>> Hopkinsville, KY
> >>>>>
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> >>
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> >
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