Mounted search and rescue

[Dick L Sweet <dsweet.fsm@voyager.net>]

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Begin forwarded message:

From: Dick L Sweet <dsweet.fsm@voyager.net>
Date: June 18, 2011 9:36:26 AM EDT
To: IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN <ilichten1@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Search for Lauren Spierer--off list

One last thing COO , I m sure you feed on titles, next time We Need a self selling expert to do a seminar we will call you. When we need nonself agrandizing experienced hoofs on the ground, we won t. 

How did you become so ful of yourself?

And WOW who was timing you when you made your comparision searches? How many ended up in "finds"?

Keep up your good work and pls take a course in how to win through encouragement vs selfindulgent criticism. 

CEO

COO

Pres

CFO

Husband

Father

Grandfather

Elder

Consultant

Christian

Servant to Him

Empressed yet?

Seriously,  I deal with "you" on a daily basis

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On Jun 17, 2011, at 11:49 PM, "IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN" <ilichten1@verizon.net> wrote:

I have been in SAR since 1979 and MSAR since 1986.  I am a state certified SAR Management instructor, a federally certified ICS/NIMS and safety instructor and have probably run more jobs than you have. And our searches were for live people, not bodies.

We stopped grid searching before 1984 when discriminating air scent dogs became available and we developed the 3 person task group.  We also instituted using trackers

whenever possible.  The idea is to minimize the use of manpower.  Between air scent dogs and horses I can search any area to an 80% POD faster and with less disruption of the terrain than any grid team can.  I can also do it with about one tenth the manpower, especially important in a real search for a live person during the day during the week with limited volunteer manpower. Using skilled manpower, whether volunteer firefighters, career cops, or citizens to grid search is a waste of resources and should be reserved for body recovery in shallow still water.

 

What you have wrong is that you don’t want to learn about the subject and do it better.  You obviously didn’t read the material on our website and you also don’t participate in any national learning experiences. By the way, I am a founding member of the ASTM Committee on Search and Rescue (F32) a member of the Mounted SAR Task Force, also F30, EMS; and E31 Patient Records.   I helped found the PA State Search and Rescue Council and was its first secretary and was president for a term.  I have written peer reviewed papers on MSAR and am considered one of the most knowledgeable persons in the field having experienced the transitions from

grid to dog and to mounted air scenting as well as introducing the behavioral model into this area. 

 

A waste is using a resource on something that doesn’t work or doesn’t work as well as an alternative.  Look at the management guidelines and the manpower needed to do grid search.  Then multiply that by 3 because it takes a minimum of 3 passes, each with a different crew, to make 80% with a trained crew.  Just read the book and learn.  You have to keep track of all those people so you don’t lose one of them. And you have to feed them, transport them to the search start point and from the end point, provide medical support for them, insure them, and park their cars. 

 

You are wasting your horse’s good senses if you think all he is good for is to carry you around. You are not doing mounted search, you on a trail ride. You need to see tracks and clues, you need to read your horse’s reactions to the environment, and you need to get your brain working.  You are not mounted cops doing crowd control,

you are searching for a live person who will soon be dead if you don’t find them.  And we don’t risk live searchers for dead bodies, either.

 

Irv Lichtenstein

Chief of Operations

SE PA SAR

 

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From: Dick L Sweet [mailto:dsweet.fsm@voyager.net]
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 9:47 PM
To: IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Search for Lauren Spierer--off list

 

Ok

The military, state police and sherrif's depts have it all wrong. MSAR isn't a crime forensic's investagative unit. We go where others can t where others won t and with a point of vision atop a mount. 

So, your point would be ? And have you been in a MSAR event? And to call anything a "waste" makes you ignorant or arrogant or both. 

Have a good evening

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On Jun 17, 2011, at 5:28 PM, "IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN" <ilichten1@verizon.net> wrote:

Grid searching is a waste of manpower.  All it does is tear up the terrain so all tracks and clues are destroyed.  The key to searching is efficiency, minimum man-hours used to cover maximum terrain.  What you have suggested below is merely the start of administration.  If you are going to search use the resources available to their best advantage.  Depending on why this student went missing is very important in modeling her behavior and how to search for her. And supply references to expand the knowledge base.  See www.sepasar.net and the archives at MASAR.

 

Irv Lichtenstein

SE PA SAR

 

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From: msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dick L Sweet
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 4:46 PM
To: Yvette Rollins; Mounted search and rescue
Cc: Mounted search and rescue
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Search for Lauren Spierer

 

Prepare grid maps hand out to all MSAR s

Color strip them based on teams

Break groups into equal numbered teams

Ask ea grp to assign a grp leader

Meet breifly w ea leader

Be specific about times and regrp mtgs

If lots of teams have 1 st and 2nd wave

Same areas

Have leaders exchange phone # or use w talkies

That will give some control and accountability

Last,ask any law enforcement to encourage all msar to report to one staging area

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On Jun 17, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Yvette Rollins <hoosierhorsemen@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hello All,

 

We have been searching in the Bloomington area for Lauren Spierer, missing IU student. So far not successful. We have another search scheduled for tomorrow. Saturday morning June 18th.

 

Question: We have a lot of horseback riders joining in the search that have no experience. What is the best advice you can give me for preparing these people for the search. We had a search on Tuesday and fortunately only 19 riders showed up and it was easy to work in teams but we had one team that went off like they were going to the races. I tried to emphasis caution and care for the horses as well as the riders and preserving the scene but I do think in their excitement that did not happen.

 

Yvette

 

‘Tread Lightly upon the Land and Leave No Trace!’

From: Karen Nesbitt <spanishequines@yahoo.com>
To: MSAR <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>; Mounted search and rescue in Illinois USA. <msar-il@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 8:22 PM
Subject: [MSAR] TICKS and vermine

We seem to be suffering a "plaque" of sorts in ticks this season.  Seems for the last  two weeks or better there has not been a day where I have not had to pick one or two ticks a day off my person.. So far the fleas have been laying low, while ants have been looking for higher ground.  Due to the amount of rain, the ponding of water and flooding in many areas, the tall grass and now the high heat and humidity, it is perfect weather for them...

 

It is also perfect snake weather.  We have spotted some rather large snakes in our area including in the barn and woodland and it is egg laying time for most snake specie here. 

 

Mosquitos and flies are also going to be bad especailly in areas that are full of manure and loaded with wet filth. 

 

Where there is filth, and manure there are also mice and rats 

        KarenNesbitt - VMSAR - Iroquis County - Illinois

 

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