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Subject: Mounted search and rescue

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  • From: Karen Nesbitt <spanishequines@yahoo.com>
  • To: MSAR <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [MSAR] Dogs and gaited horses, guns and endurance
  • Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 19:10:31 -0700 (PDT)


Message: 2
Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 10:56:47 -0600
From: Una Smith <una.smith@att.net>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Dogs and horses?
To: Mounted search and rescue <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <20090510165647.GA7361@att.net" ymailto="mailto:20090510165647.GA7361@att.net">20090510165647.GA7361@att.net>
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Chris Pennington wrote:
>I was wondering about the possibility of using dogs to help track MP's from
>horseback. There was some history of doing this type of thing in the distant
>past but I haven't heard much about it in modern SAR. Does anyone do this?
>Know of anyone who does this? Curious because our youngest pup shows some
>aptitude but I don't think I have the time to do two completely different
>disciplines. Now combining them....for use separately or together....that's
>intriguing.

A woman in New Mexico, who used to be on this list, would carry her small
SAR dog on horseback to transport him to the search area.  He would search
on foot.  She got really busy with USAR and FEMA, and I don't know what
she is up to now.  I know other MSAR responders who sometimes bring well
behaved ranch working dogs (cattle dogs) on searches with them.  These dogs
are experts at searching out cattle, and clearly understand the search job,
but they are not trained nor proven SAR dogs.  There is a lot of interest
in combining SAR dogs and horses, but because strong canine SAR and mounted
SAR communities rarely occur in the same places, cross-training is difficult.
Canine teams are more common in areas where the number of missions is high
(ie, urban areas);  MSAR teams are more common in ranching and farming
communities.  These two kinds of team co-occur most often urban/wilderness
interface areas.  (Chris lives in such an area.)

Among long distance horse riders (meaning those who ride across continents),
it is very common to travel with a dog, the dog riding on top of a loaded
pack saddle.  The dog jumps on and off at will.

Some hunting dogs still are worked from horseback.  Most often, the dogs are
pointers.  They are worked on long leads from the horse (this is called
"roading"), or off lead.  See for example this very interesting web page:
http://www.gaitedhorses.net/Articles/FT/FieldTrial.shtml  Note it mentions
handling a dog on a 30-foot lead, while riding through brush.  Smart dogs
worked on leads in woodlands soon learn not to wrap the lead around trees,
and how to unwrap it if necessary (eg they guess wrong about which way the
human will go).

I hope this inspires some of you to approach SAR dog teams in your area
about training together.  Many SAR dog teams like to have two people work
each dog:  a handler and a navigator/comms person.  So you might start by
volunteering to work as their navigator during training searches, and
learn by watching.

    Una Smith
    New Mexico
---------------->>>>>>>>>>>

In response to the above, I cannot advocate the gaited breeds enough for their abilities for feild trials as well as working with dogs.  I have worked with numerous types of gaited breeds including Paso Finos, Peruvian Pasos, Paso/paso crosses and the Tennuvians as well as racking horses.  I highly regard the paso gaited horses over all, but then I am strongly predjudice because this is the breeds I have been raising. for near the past 3 decades
 
You cannot beat the gaited for their staying power and smooth gait ALL DAY long and to which if you are the type where your knees and back go out, you cannot find a better steed.  We call them the ride all day and dance at night ponies! 
 
The pasos are particularly eager to please and work well with dogs however I have had a few take a strong dislike to a dog particularly after being attacked and to which a few of my own mares are relentless in going after a dog if one were to enter the property.
 
ACDs (cattle dogs) can make great search and rescue animals providing you have the patience and the endurance to keep up with the dogs incredible energy and also intelligence.  Years back we had the great pleasure of owning an ACD that was incredible in intelligence.  She could dicern slippers from shoes, retrieve various identified toys, get the mail, pick up objects upon request and more!  She was an ultimate companion dog and her inteligence was superior.   The breed is a chase dog and to which it loves seeking its quarry and can be adaptable in many ways.  But each pup is very different in their personalitys.
 
Now we have an ACD pup that is quite tenacious, very smart but dyslestic to our requests!  Totally the oppisite of the previous one, but her intelligence lies in much now in owner error from being so spoiled with the first dog, we just keep having those failures to communicate.  Not that she is not smart, because she is highly intelligent,  just that she seems to have her own understanding and vocabulary of commands that work. Much like working with a horse that is taught in another language.
 
Speaking of which, if you do get into the spanish breeds, you will find many trained in spanish and so you might need a little help in understaning the lingo to understand a previously trained horse since it could very well be taught in espanol and tu no habla!
The various strains be they Columbiano, Puerto Rican,  Peruvian etc alsssy may have a  slight varience in how the animals may be trained as well.  And please note Peruvian Pasos are a different breed than a Paso Fino.
 
If you are not familiar with the breeds, it is truly a new world and can be very confusing.
And training methods and equipment does vary from other breeds.
 
Excellent website there Una!  And there truly are a vast owners of gaiteds who are long distance riders.  They are super competitive and endurance mounts which is also is a great place if you have the time to train to train your MSAR horses.  You will build not only stamina in your steed, but your horse will get much exposure to many things on the trail and  in travel.  Its a great "workout" world and to which you will also learn to manage your horses P and R's and much more.  (For those who do not know what a  P & R is, that stands for pulse and respiration!)
 
Paso Finos are also horses of longevity and it is not uncommon for them to live to their mid 20's and beyond 30.  Our oldest mare is approaching 30 and though she is not the beauty she was in her younger days and does have trouble keeping weight she still has a lot of heart for an old horse.  As my friends have said, she has defied death being a survivor of West Nile contracting that when she was 25.  She has immunity.   According to our one vet, apparently we did something right in her care to see her live this long.  Half our herd is over 20 years of age.   At 25, most horses usually die if they get the WN.  It makes me wonder if it is not something also in her particular genes.  She is of pure Puerto Rican decent.
 
Field trialing brings together birddogs, horses and guns.  (Blanks of course!)
So is not the place for the untrained.  Getting experience might be a problem especially if you cannot find a group to learn and participate with!

        Karen
 
 




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