msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Mounted search and rescue
List archive
- From: Doug Reynaud <dreynaud@openspaceauthority.org>
- To: Mounted search and rescue <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [MSAR] FLSA may apply
- Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 06:15:44 -0800
Irv, I am aware of all your points of contention. I am trying to explore agencies that have found an avenue around this obvious discussions.-Thank You for Your Concerns _Doug
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 8:55 AM, IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN <ilichten1@verizon.net> wrote:
The critical difference on rereading Doug's question between volunteer MSAR
or patrol or Town Watch and his program is that the patrol is on-duty sworn
officers, on payroll. Where a department uses paid personnel's cars or
equipment (in this case horses) a personnel policy and usually the
collective bargaining agreement, must include this practice and how the
officers get paid for maintenance time.
Under the Fair Labor Standards Act all time spent working is compensated
time for officers, fire personnel, and EMS personnel. This has been decided
many times in federal courts, most recently in Maryland where career
firefighters were encouraged to volunteer for the unpaid night shift in
combination departments. Even if the day career shift was county paid and
the night shift was a separate volunteer fire company as long as the
jurisdiction served was the same it was considered overtime.
If the horses are stabled at the officers' homes the time spent feeding,
grooming, loading and unloading, training, by the officer may be overtime to
the department or chargeable services. For instance, who pays for
veterinary care? If an officer is IOD who maintains the horse? Is the horse
an uncompensated employee expense for tax purposes? Probably not, because
the officer won't loose his job if he is not mounted, he'll just have to use
a department provided patrol car.
These questions are probably why most police programs using paid officers
use police owned or contracted horses and stables.
Irv Lichtenstein
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-
Re: [MSAR] Paid Personnel are different
, (continued)
-
Re: [MSAR] Paid Personnel are different,
IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN, 02/10/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Paid Personnel are different,
Doug Reynaud, 02/10/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Paid Personnel are different,
Una Smith, 02/10/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Paid Personnel are different,
Doug Reynaud, 02/10/2009
- Re: [MSAR] Paid Personnel are different, Una Smith, 02/13/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Paid Personnel are different,
Doug Reynaud, 02/10/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Paid Personnel are different,
IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN, 02/10/2009
- Re: [MSAR] Paid Personnel are different, Doug Reynaud, 02/10/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Paid Personnel are different,
Una Smith, 02/10/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Paid Personnel are different,
Doug Reynaud, 02/10/2009
- Re: [MSAR] Important: institutional memory, Doug Reynaud, 02/10/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] FLSA may apply,
IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN, 02/09/2009
- Re: [MSAR] FLSA may apply, Una Smith, 02/09/2009
- Re: [MSAR] FLSA may apply, Doug Reynaud, 02/10/2009
- Re: [MSAR] Important: institutional memory, IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN, 02/09/2009
- Re: [MSAR] Important: institutional memory, T'mi Fi, 02/10/2009
-
Re: [MSAR] Paid Personnel are different,
IRVIN LICHTENSTEIN, 02/10/2009
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