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  • From: Todd Lister <toddlister1 AT gmail.com>
  • To: Market Farming <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Fwd: [sno-valley-tilth] OrganicVeg Farmers whouse Semin
  • Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 07:43:03 -0400

Personally this is not an envelope I wish to push. In the interest of my customers and my families health, why would I even consider jumping into such a mess. Look at what the rest of the world thinks of these profiteering practices that are being forces on ag by "American mega pirates ". Is it possible once again that a large multinational has the best interests of the people in their motivations AT ALL?  Since farmers around the world are so new to growing food I guess it stands to reason we need to be taught how to do it by those motivated by growing quarterly earnings reports.

Just a few bits of debate on the subject:

Clockwinder
01-13-2010, 06:01 PM
I'm no fan of Monsanto either - but in the interest of full disclosure, they are HQ'd just around the corner form me and pay taxes to my city. That said, this "report" is bogus. The other side of the story is here: http://www.monsanto.com/search.asp?queryText=gm+corn+safety
Don't take a knee jerk attitude - check out both sides. You will see that the Monsanto studies are done in accordance with all Scientific protocols, including peer review and independent review, using data generated by named and know authorities in a multitude of scientific branches. Those folks are named here:http://www.monsanto.com/pdf/products/techpubs_EnvironmentalSafetyAug07.pdf

Linedoggie
01-13-2010, 06:11 PM
Ron Pauls take?

gazell
01-13-2010, 06:21 PM
Now, there is a lot of trouble with Monsanto and GM crops, but yet again, there is no substance to this particular stuff. Is there a conspiracy you do not subscribe to?

maw
01-14-2010, 10:54 AM
Now, there is a lot of trouble with Monsanto and GM crops, but yet again, there is no substance to this particular stuff. Is there a conspiracy you do not subscribe to?

i'm not sure who your question is aimed at but i'll bite. one of the biggest contentions with gmo's the way monsanto and other industry lobbyists were able to push the principle of substantial equivalence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substantial_equivalence through the fda and congress. this was a major coup for the industry because by defining gmo's to be substantially equivalent to natural organisms they were able to bypass the usual fda testing and review process. this means that all testing is controlled by the corporations, so all of the gm corn, soy, wheat, etc out there has not not been objectively tested. furthermore, the problem lies with monsanto's consistent record of manipulating tests and suppressing harmful information, contemporaneously this started with ddt and more recently with rbgh and hfcs. let us not forget that congress wanted federal felony convictions against responsible parties at searle (now monsanto) regarding the deliberate manipulation of tests to obtain fda approval of aspartame, however corrupt doj officials sat on the case until the statute of limitations expired and then jumped over to the legal firm representing monsanto. not all gmo's are bad. the problem is that the fox is guarding the hen house.
additionally, there is a lot of concern with monsanto's very aggressive seed control and business practices. there are plenty of cases of monsanto going after a farmer whose crops have been infiltrated by seeds from a neighboring farm.
additionally 2, as someone who messes around with genetics at the hobby level i can say that monsanto's lust for locking down organic patents is scary and will prove to be constrictive to the industry as a whole.

dacanadianbomb
01-14-2010, 01:47 PM
"the problem is that the fox is guarding the hen house"

This is almost as bad as than having no guard at all.This way one can undermine the guarding whilst appearing to be a dog, and not a fox.


On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 8:48 PM, Todd Lister <toddlister1 AT gmail.com> wrote:
There is no question that Monteranto is an enemy of the worlds farmers. The evidence is overwhelming that they are willing to do ANYTHING for $$$$$$$. As evil a business model as we will EVER see in this great country. Small family farms used to be an important part of the big picture. From here on out we will survive only because of the growing demand for our products by those who except these monsters are  destroying the food chain. Monsanto=Union Carbide, Goldman Sachs, Haliburton. When this thing collapses at least I will have real food. I will NEVER buy a treated seed OR a seed from the likes of anybody who thinks a laboratory is part of farming.  If you think GMO is OK you need to look around.
http://blogs.barrons.com/stockstowatchtoday/2010/01/13/monsanto-report-genetically-modified-corn-causes-organ-damage-in-rats/
http://www.infowars.com/monsantos-gmo-corn-linked-to-organ-failure-study-reveals/
http://azhomegrownsolutions.ning.com/forum/topics/monsantos-gmo-corn-linked-to
There are plenty of people out there who dismiss this story. There are also plenty of people who reject climate change is an issue to be taken seriously. I guess if you use chemical and synthetic fertilizer you will reject this. Have a great growing season.
Todd
Veribest Farm
Vesta, Ga





On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Road's End Farm <organic87 AT frontiernet.net> wrote:

On Mar 19, 2010, at 7:01 AM, rosnide3 AT vt.edu wrote:

> Actually no that is NOT what I was looking for. Perhaps I
> misunderstood the
> whole dicussion but I thought there were claims about non GMO
> varieties made on
> here. I knew about the GMO stuff. I apologize if I have misunderstood.


Whether the varieties are GMO or non-GMO has nothing to do with
whether they may be under a non-propagation agreement, or what the
terms of such agreement might be. I have certainly seen non-
propagation agreements for non-GMO seed, including for both hybrid and
open-pollinated seed; though such contracts don't necessarily include
language allowing the owner of the seed to come on the grower's land
to check for enforcement -- they are mostly meant to prevent sales of
the seed to other parties, so enforcement in those cases would be
done, I presume, by watching for such sales.

The question is whether Monsanto has applied such contracts to recent
sales of Seminis seed, and if so a) what the terms are and b) whether
they might try to enforce them on people who have been working for
some time with the Seminis varieties to breed their own strains from
them and/or to save their own seed for the variety. Many of the
Seminis varieties were not previously patented or otherwise
restricted, or were restricted only under the old plant variety laws
that allowed such use by farmers; and growers may well be in
possession of such seed and/or of plants descended from such seed that
they are breeding from; under the original terms of sale this is
entirely legal.


-- Rivka; Finger Lakes NY, Zone 5 mostly
Fresh-market organic produce, small scale



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