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  • From: ecook516 AT earthlink.net
  • To: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [Market-farming] Are you attending the CASA- Future Harvest Conference?
  • Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:03:37 -0500 (GMT-05:00)


Any females attending the CASA Future Harvest Conference in Hagerstown, MD
want to share a hotel room??

Emily
ecook516 AT earthlink.net


-----Original Message-----
From: market-farming-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Dec 23, 2003 12:04 PM
To: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Market-farming Digest, Vol 11, Issue 25

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Today's Topics:

1. Greenhouse heat (Roger Weeks)
2. Heaters (Courtney McLeod)
3. Re: Heaters (Leigh Hauter)
4. Re: Heaters (Tradingpost)
5. RE: Greenhouse heat (Paul A. Bock)
6. RE: Heaters (Paul A. Bock)
7. Re: Greenhouse heat (robert schuler)
8. Re: Heaters (Maggie)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 10:06:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Roger Weeks <roger69 AT yahoo.com>
Subject: [Market-farming] Greenhouse heat
To: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <20031222180659.78836.qmail AT web41015.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Happy Holidays everyone!

A wintertime question for those of you with greenhouses, large or
small:

What do you use for heating, if you heat your greenhouse?

I want to find a solution that uses gas - natural, propane, kerosene -
for my small 8x12 greenhouse. What I have failed to find so far is a
heater that has a thermostat. All of the portable propane/kerosene
heaters have a manual igniter and a a temperature dial from low to
high. I want something with specific temperature control, and an
automatic ignition.

Does such a thing exist? If I had a larger greenhouse, I'd be looking
into more commercial types of heaters. But for 8x12, it's just not
necessary.

Electrical heat is just too damn expensive, especially here in
California in December.

Roger Weeks

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:12:16 -0500
From: "Courtney McLeod" <cmcleod AT imscompany.com>
Subject: [Market-farming] Heaters
To: "Market Farming" <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:

<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAA65RdCeQ0hG6dgCAyFMfHsKAAAAQAAAA2nTzG4nsfEub9OXU9Jd0UgEAAAAA AT imscompany.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

What do you use for heating, if you heat your greenhouse?

If I had a larger greenhouse, I'd be looking into more commercial types of
heaters.


Hi Roger
I have a 14' x 32' greenhouse and I use a Modine 60,000 heater that is gas
(propane). I had to buy a thermostat. And the 60,000 is a bit much for the
size that I have, but I don't like it to "over-work" so then it wont use
more gas. I was recommended a 32,000 but then it would have had to work too
hard and use more gas. I am zone 5 and we "usually" have pretty cold
winter's. I have little money so I spent an extra $100 to have the larger
size unit that uses less gas. Gas is not cheep here. Granted, it is cheaper
than out in your neck of the woods! But it will be good for when I expand
the greenhouse in a couple of years.


Courtney
Herb Thyme


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 14:23:43 -0500
From: Leigh Hauter <lh AT pressroom.com>
Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Heaters
To: Market Farming <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <p0601020abc0cf5366b21@[216.44.70.39]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

I have a 30X96 ft greenhouse (it just grew 24 feet this year) and I'm
in the market to purchase an outside wood furnace to heat it a the
addition on our house we are building plus maybe the shop. Anyone
have experience with outdoor wood furnaces and can you recommend or
condemn a manufacturer?

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:57:39 -0700
From: "Tradingpost" <tradingpost AT gilanet.com>
Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Heaters
To: "Market Farming" <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <200312221257390384.017AC600 AT mail.gilanet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


Build one with cement blocks for a few dollars. Run a closed, airtight black
stove pipe through it and through the greenhouse in a circle. May need a duct
fan to move the air. A one or two day job.

And buy firewood.

paul tradingpost AT gilanet.com

Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes.
--Henry David Thoreau

That is well said, replied Candide, but we must cultivate our garden.
--Voltaire [Francois-Marie Arouet] Candide

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 12/22/2003 at 2:23 PM Leigh Hauter wrote:

>I have a 30X96 ft greenhouse (it just grew 24 feet this year) and I'm
>in the market to purchase an outside wood furnace to heat it a the
>addition on our house we are building plus maybe the shop. Anyone
>have experience with outdoor wood furnaces and can you recommend or
>condemn a manufacturer?
>_______________________________________________
>Market-farming mailing list
>Market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/market-farming
>
>Get the list FAQ at: http://www.marketfarming.net/mflistfaq.htm




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:26:20 -0500
From: "Paul A. Bock" <bockpa AT plesh.com>
Subject: RE: [Market-farming] Greenhouse heat
To: <roger69 AT yahoo.com>, "'Market Farming'"
<market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <003801c3c8c9$dd2b9af0$7701ec0a@pleshcad02>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Maybe you could find an old furnace that has a rusted out heat exchanger.
The carbon dioxide vented into the greenhouse space would be good for the
plants too. Another idea would be the burner arrangement in a gas dryer,
those are automatic ignition and they vent their exhaust right into the
clothes dryer drum.

This would be cheap and require some rigging. Probably the best and safest
bet for a greenhouse that small would be one of those wall-mountable natural
gas/propane powered space heaters. I'm not talking about the ones that
screw onto a small tank of propane. These are for space heating one room,
they vent directly into the room, and I think some of them have devices
built right in to detect if carbon monoxide is starting to develop. They
have a thermostat right in them.

This is one heck of a link, but this is a list of "direct-vent wall heaters"
from home depot.

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_
META&CNTKEY=storehome%2fpg_storehome.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@1026106398.1072122
166@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccdhadckfefddlgcgelceffdfgidgjl.0&MID=9876&pos=t06

-----Original Message-----
From: market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Roger
Weeks
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 1:07 PM
To: market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [Market-farming] Greenhouse heat


Happy Holidays everyone!

A wintertime question for those of you with greenhouses, large or
small:

What do you use for heating, if you heat your greenhouse?

I want to find a solution that uses gas - natural, propane, kerosene -
for my small 8x12 greenhouse. What I have failed to find so far is a
heater that has a thermostat. All of the portable propane/kerosene
heaters have a manual igniter and a a temperature dial from low to
high. I want something with specific temperature control, and an
automatic ignition.

Does such a thing exist? If I had a larger greenhouse, I'd be looking
into more commercial types of heaters. But for 8x12, it's just not
necessary.

Electrical heat is just too damn expensive, especially here in
California in December.

Roger Weeks

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/
_______________________________________________
Market-farming mailing list
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Get the list FAQ at: http://www.marketfarming.net/mflistfaq.htm


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:55:36 -0500
From: "Paul A. Bock" <bockpa AT plesh.com>
Subject: RE: [Market-farming] Heaters
To: "'Market Farming'" <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <003901c3c8cd$f3b608b0$7701ec0a@pleshcad02>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I personally hate all water-jacket type wood burning furnaces. They don't
let the wood burn hot enough. You need to burn at 1100F to burn up creosote
and to get smoke free operation. The water jacket sits about 150-200F and
cools the combustion down so much that the wood never gets burning hot
enough. Everywhere I see them they are always putting out smoke. I am
talking about the circulated hot water types. Also most of them don't
operate under any pressure, all vented to the outside air. This lets the
water evaporate as well as let oxygen into the system, The oxygen in the
water is what lets all the metal components get rusted out. (The circulating
pump housings, the pump impellers, the water jacket to the furnace, the
control valves, etc.) To get the hot water to different areas (zones) you
will be using something called PEX tubing, which is a special cross-linked
polyethylene tube, able to handle pressure at the high water temperatures.
This tubing is made with a special layer that prevents oxygen from getting
into your system.


I never purchased from this place, but this is the best wood stove made,
IMHO.
http://www.radiantdirect.com/page15.html

A nice refractory combustion box lets the wood burn hot. You will end up
getting more heat out of the wood. The wood will last longer, you won't
have creosote problems.

Let me tell you one more thing, don't oversize the system. I delivered
firewood to a guy who had a hot-air indoor wood furnace. He got the next
larger size because he was going to put on an addition someday. Well that
larger furnace was always idling in the smaller house. It would kick on for
a few minutes every few hours, but never had good consistent burns to burn
up the creosote. His chimney looked like it had been coated in tar. And if
there was a good cold night where the furnace might actually burn for a bit,
all that creosote could go up in flames like a jet engine.

Also think about your current furnace. It might be rated at 200,000 btus.
That means while it is on, it is putting out 200,000 BTU's per hour. Maybe
your house only needs 20,000 btus per hour to stay at a certain temperature.
Well your furnace will kick on in cycles. So if you only need 20 and it
puts out 200, it might only be on 1/10th the time or 6 minutes per hour. A
hot air furnace doesn't idle, it is completely off during the off cycles. A
wood burner idles during the off cycle. The firebox is still hot, but
usually the combustion air is cut off, or the combustion fan isn't blowing.
So the fire starts cooling down and if it cools enough, especially in a
water jacket furnace, it gets down enough to not burn up the creosote. It
is best to have these things burning at full bore most of the time.

The nice thing about the refractory wall style wood burner that I provided a
link to, is that the refractory (masonry) stores up the heat and insulates
the fire so that it keeps its temperature up and doesn't start making
creosote during the idle phase.

A couple good books I have come across:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0882667882/qid=1072126254/sr=1
-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2336155-0361454?v=glance&s=books

The New Woodburner's Handbook.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0766816370/qid=1072126349/sr=2-1/ref=
sr_2_1/103-2336155-0361454

Modern Hydronic Heating

-Paul Bock
Stone Gully



-----Original Message-----
From: market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Leigh
Hauter
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 2:24 PM
To: Market Farming
Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Heaters


I have a 30X96 ft greenhouse (it just grew 24 feet this year) and I'm
in the market to purchase an outside wood furnace to heat it a the
addition on our house we are building plus maybe the shop. Anyone
have experience with outdoor wood furnaces and can you recommend or
condemn a manufacturer?
_______________________________________________
Market-farming mailing list
Market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/market-farming

Get the list FAQ at: http://www.marketfarming.net/mflistfaq.htm


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:20:06 -0500
From: robert schuler <sunnfarm AT bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Greenhouse heat
To: roger69 AT yahoo.com, Market Farming
<market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <3FE77C25.E09432B2 AT bellatlantic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I just spent the first day of winter putting up a new 20x48 ft retail
sales greenhouse along the highway next to my farmstand. It will be used
for selling spring flowers and Christmas Poinsettias. I started 12 pm
bolting together bows and by 5 pm had the whole frame up, I love the
gothic arch look .
Roger I use mostly oil heaters both hot air and hot water circulating
systems, but in my new house I am using a 120000 btu Modine propane
heater, I install and service all my heaters myself. In a small house like
yours you will not need much more than 30000 btu's, I would think the
small unvented portable propane heaters sold in every hardware store would
work well for you. Just be sure to provide one square inch of air inlet
and outlet for every 2000 btu's of heater output...Bob.
Sunny Meadow Farm
Bridgeton, NJ.

Roger Weeks wrote:

> Happy Holidays everyone!
>
> A wintertime question for those of you with greenhouses, large or
> small:
>
> What do you use for heating, if you heat your greenhouse?
>
> I want to find a solution that uses gas - natural, propane, kerosene -
> for my small 8x12 greenhouse. What I have failed to find so far is a
> heater that has a thermostat. All of the portable propane/kerosene
> heaters have a manual igniter and a a temperature dial from low to
> high. I want something with specific temperature control, and an
> automatic ignition.
>
> Does such a thing exist? If I had a larger greenhouse, I'd be looking
> into more commercial types of heaters. But for 8x12, it's just not
> necessary.
>
> Electrical heat is just too damn expensive, especially here in
> California in December.
>
> Roger Weeks
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
> http://photos.yahoo.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Market-farming mailing list
> Market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/market-farming
>
> Get the list FAQ at: http://www.marketfarming.net/mflistfaq.htm


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:11:21 -0500
From: "Maggie" <snowbird AT frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Heaters
To: "Market Farming" <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001801c3c902$72f544e0$cb39fea9@o4q2j8>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

i have used an outside wood burning furnace and loved it. I got it out of
Minnesota I think. Used it for house and greenhouse. Hard to use it to its
fullest capacity as it is so large. Wood can go in 2 feet chunks and not
split. Wonderful solution takes about 6 years to pay back the additional
investment.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leigh Hauter" <lh AT pressroom.com>
To: "Market Farming" <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Market-farming] Heaters


> I have a 30X96 ft greenhouse (it just grew 24 feet this year) and I'm
> in the market to purchase an outside wood furnace to heat it a the
> addition on our house we are building plus maybe the shop. Anyone
> have experience with outdoor wood furnaces and can you recommend or
> condemn a manufacturer?
> _______________________________________________
> Market-farming mailing list
> Market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/market-farming
>
> Get the list FAQ at: http://www.marketfarming.net/mflistfaq.htm
>


------------------------------

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End of Market-farming Digest, Vol 11, Issue 25
**********************************************




  • [Market-farming] Are you attending the CASA- Future Harvest Conference?, ecook516, 12/23/2003

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