livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
List archive
- From: "Norm Cooper" <grapegro@aapt.net.au>
- To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: [Livingontheland] spams
- Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:11:46 +1000
Hello Paul,
I use with great effect Spamfighter, all the spams go into a file and can be checked before deletion. Yesterdays mail from livingontheland showed up on my computor as spam.I was originally critisesed by you on the use of this medium but I have found it to be the best from a great number of people that use it.
Regards, Norm Cooper
----- Original Message ----- From: <livingontheland-request@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:00 AM
Subject: Livingontheland Digest, Vol 109, Issue 7
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: brix/ was vitamins, minerals and taste (Tradingpost)
2. spams? (Tradingpost)
3. Government Never Improved Produce Inspections After Deadly E.
Coli Outbreak (TradingPostPaul)
4. Re: brix/ was vitamins, minerals and taste (Aliza)
5. Re: brix/ was vitamins, minerals and taste (TradingPostPaul)
6. Re: spams? (Liz)
7. Re: As giant crops flourish, vitamins, minerals and taste
(yarrow@sfo.com)
8. Is it too late to stop the ethanol con job? (TradingPostPaul)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:10:22 -0600
From: "Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] brix/ was vitamins, minerals and taste
To: emitch@att.net, livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <200709151010220515.0A72A895@mail.lobo.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
A couple quick points. True, sugar or brix isn't everything. Mineral and
vitamin density seems to have something to do with brix since all plant
nutrients are needed for healthy growth and ripening. Brix or refractometer
reading is meant for fresh produce of various kinds rather than cookies and
all the processed foods with sugar added. It's used religiously by wineries
for quality control. It can show the difference between different fruits or
vegetables of the same kind - one grape versus another, storebought
tomatoes versus homegrown op. We don't want the processed junk. I think
you'll agree we want high brix in the fruits and vegetables we eat. What we
can do to get it is give them healthy soil. Which brings up back to where
we began this list.
paul tradingpost@lobo.net
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 9/15/2007 at 4:55 AM E. E. Mitchamore Jr wrote:
I'd be interested in a non-biased source of information on "Brix". A
while back I did a cursory search and it seemed to be a measurement of
sugars. That idea is supported by this reference to "energy", but that's
problematic. Sugar = carbohydrates = energy = calories, and I don't think
that's our collective problem. We, at least in America, have too much
"empty" energy in our diets. The problem is the loss of nutrients in our
diets other than carbohydrates (vitamins, minerals, etc.). This problem
is so serious related to the amount of processed foods in our diets that
discussions of nutrient density in fresh fruit and vegetables is really
missing the point. While we discuss the finer points of vegetable
quality, the agribusiness corporations are making billions processing
corn, soybeans and petroleum into pseudo-foods, and Americans are sucking
them down to the detriment of their health.
Yes, I strongly believe we should grow and eat organic (and local),
vegetables, but fussing about their size and nutrients is petty, compared
to the ongoing massive insults to our diets and environment. Read The
Omnivore's Dilemma or Real Food by Nina Planck.
E. E. "Mitch" Mitchamore
www.hillcountrynatives.biz
----- Original Message ----- From: TradingPostPaul
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 12:42 AM
Subject: [Livingontheland] brix/ was vitamins, minerals and taste
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:16:02 -0600
From: "Tradingpost" <tradingpost@lobo.net>
Subject: [Livingontheland] spams?
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <200709151016020686.0A77D961@mail.lobo.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Seems I must have accidentally let a couple spams through. I'm seeing
dozens of spams every day and I try to block each one with all posts on
moderate. We're really getting bombed for some reason ...
My apologies.
paul tradingpost@lobo.net
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 09:54:42 -0600
From: "TradingPostPaul" <tradingpost@riseup.net>
Subject: [Livingontheland] Government Never Improved Produce
Inspections After Deadly E. Coli Outbreak
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <200709150954420172.0A644F2F@mail.lobo.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070912/salad_safety.html
Gov't Didn't Act After E. Coli Outbreak
Wednesday September 12, 7:26 pm ET
By Garance Burke, Associated Press Writer
Government Never Improved Produce Inspections After Deadly E. Coli Outbreak
SALINAS, Calif. (AP) -- Government regulators never acted on calls
for stepped-up inspections of leafy greens after last year's deadly
E. coli spinach outbreak, leaving the safety of America's salads to a
patchwork of largely unenforceable rules and the industry itself, an
Associated Press investigation has found.
The regulations governing farms in this central California region
known as the nation's "Salad Bowl" remain much as they were when
bacteria from a cattle ranch infected spinach that killed three
people and sickened more than 200.
AP's review of data obtained through the Freedom of Information Act
found that federal officials inspect companies growing and processing
salad greens an average of just once every 3.9 years. Some proposals
in Congress would require such inspections at least four times a year.
In California, which grows three-quarters of the nation's greens,
processors created a new inspection system but with voluntary
guidelines that were unable to keep bagged spinach tainted with
salmonella from reaching grocery shelves last month.
Despite widespread calls for spot-testing of processing plants
handling leafy greens following last year's E. coli outbreak,
California public health inspectors have not been given the authority
to conduct such tests, so none have been done, the AP review found.
"We have strict standards for lead paint on toys, but we don't seem
to take the same level of seriousness about something that we consume
every day," said Darryl Howard, whose 83-year-old mother, Betty
Howard, of Richland, Wash., died as a result of E. coli-related
complications.
She was one of two elderly people to die in the outbreak that began
in August 2006 and also included the death of a child and sicknesses
reported from more than 200 people from Maine to Arizona.
By mid-September, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued a two-
week nationwide warning not to eat fresh spinach. Authorities
eventually traced the likely source of the E. coli to a cattle ranch
about 40 miles east of Salinas.
But a regulatory backlash never happened.
State Sen. Dean Florez, a Central Valley Democrat who sponsored three
failed bills to enact mandatory regulations for leafy greens earlier
this year, said momentum faded as the E. coli case dropped from the
headlines and the industry lobbied hard for self-regulation.
"That legislation was held up waiting for this voluntary approach for
food safety to see if it works," said Florez, who is skeptical of
that approach.
"It only took one 50-acre parcel to poison 200 people and bring the
industry to its knees," he said. "We don't get why the industry would
be playing this game of roulette with our food."
Among the AP's other findings:
-- Since September 2006, federal Food and Drug Administration staff
inspected only 29 of the hundreds of California farms that grow fresh
"stem and leaf vegetables," a broad category the agency uses to keep
track of everything from cauliflower to artichokes. Agency officials
said they did not know how many of those grew leafy greens.
-- Since raw vegetables, especially leafy greens, are minimally
processed, they have surpassed meat as the primary culprit for food-
borne illness. Produce caused nearly twice as many multistate
outbreaks than meat from 1990-2004, but the funding has not caught up
to this trend. The U.S. Department of Agriculture branch that
prevents animal diseases gets almost twice the funding as the FDA
receives to safeguard produce.
-- California lettuce and spinach have been the source of 13 E. coli
outbreaks since 1996. But if salad growers or handlers violate those
new guidelines, they are not subject to any fines, are not punishable
under state law and may be allowed to keep selling their products.
Last year's outbreak prompted a temporary downturn in sales of salad
greens, but more than 5 million bags of salad are now sold each day
nationwide, a number the industry says will grow as health-conscious
consumers opt for more greens and vegetables.
Much of those sprout near Salinas, where the fog lifted on a recent
morning over fields of romaine and iceberg already wilting in the
August sun.
Men in sweat shirts and baseball caps cut heads of lettuce from the
ground and loaded them into cardboard boxes to be taken to a nearby
plant owned by Castroville-based packager Ocean Mist Farms. From
there, they would be shipped out to supermarkets and buyers as far
away as Japan.
In an attempt to reassure wary customers, Ocean Mist's vice president
recently helped organize a group to police food safety, run entirely
by the $1.7 billion leafy greens industry. Some 118 salad processors
have signed on to the California Leafy Green Products Handler
Marketing Agreement, which uses its own voluntary food safety
guidelines.
Public health inspectors can impose mandatory food-safety rules on
the farm only after an outbreak, said Patrick Kennelly, chief of the
food safety section at California's Department of Public Health.
Some scientists question the approach.
"Mandatory measures give a level playing field and make sure
everybody responds," said Martin Cole, a food safety expert at the
Illinois Institute of Technology.
But in the absence of federal regulations, 10 auditors from the
California Department of Food and Agriculture are monitoring the
fields, including Roxann Bramlage, who tramped down the rows of
lettuce with a checklist.
"When somebody cuts their finger and it bleeds, what will you do?"
Bramlage asked foreman Fernando Vasquez, standing next to a harvester
machine rolling gently over the beds.
"When he cuts his finger, even if it's a small cut, I take him to the
edge of the field," Vasquez said in Spanish. "Then I put a border
around the area where he was working and I don't let anyone cut in it."
That was the right answer.
Ocean Mist passed Bramlage's field audit because the company could
prove its growers protected their crops against pathogens, which gave
them the right to use a state seal telling consumers the product was
grown safely. Growers say that seal sends a powerful message to
consumers.
"Once they join, there's nothing voluntary about the program," said
Scott Horsfall, who oversees the marketing agreement. "If a handler
is decertified, buyers will definitely react."
The industry-led approach isn't foolproof, however.
On Aug. 29, Metz Fresh, a grower and shipper in King City, 30 miles
south of Salinas, recalled 8,000 cartons of fresh spinach tainted
with salmonella. Auditors had visited the company a few weeks before,
but inspected a field where the produce was clean. So they noted
nothing unusual in their report.
No one knows how the bacteria got into the leaves. But the news
rekindled fears among consumers and legislators who say they are
skeptical of the government's willingness to let the industry police
itself.
"Some will say the system is working and that we are catching the
problem and recalling products, but the average consumer wouldn't
know that," said U.S. Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, who chairs the Senate
Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry. "Last year, it was
E. coli; this year, salmonella."
Harkin and Rep. Rosa DeLauro, D-Conn., are both working on bills to
develop a set of mandatory national guidelines to supercede the
current patchwork of food safety regulations.
Similar proposals were developed a year ago, but none have gone forward.
In March, the Bush Administration issued a draft of its guidance to
minimize microbial hazards of fresh-cut fruits and vegetables. Unlike
the strict hazard-control program governing meat and poultry, the
guidance included no new laws.
Many growers and producers are either unaware of the guidelines or
simply aren't complying, according to the Center for Science in the
Public Interest, a Washington-based consumer advocacy group.
"Inspection alone isn't going to fix the problem, unless the farmers
utilize food-safety plans that are effective for controlling
pathogens," said Caroline Smith DeWaal, director of the center's food
safety division. "They're not getting at the source of the
contamination: on the farm."
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:13:05 -0700
From: "Aliza" <realfood@wonderfulfarm.com>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] brix/ was vitamins, minerals and taste
To: "E. E. Mitchamore Jr" <emitch@att.net>, "Healthy soil and
sustainable growing" <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <004701c7f7bb$af42bcc0$4400a8c0@1ECA66A679AB494>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
While the measurement is of the sugars, plants bind minerals to the sugars. The more sugars the more minerals. That is why high brix veggies taste so much better and have much higher nutrient levels. the added bonus is that high brix veggies are much less prone to insect attacks, molds and fungus. A good high brix fruit will shrivel and dehydrate instead of mold on your counter. If you want to learn more about this you can contact the folks at high brix gardens, Jon Frank at www.aglabs.com or Thomas Giannou at http://www.tandjenterprises.com. There is also a yahoo group that deals with brix and both Jon and Thomas are on it. Both these guys really understand soil biology and the way that plants uptake nutrients. Read the work of Arden Anderson or Albrecht for a more unbiased view.
Remember that the types of carbs in vegetables differ greatly from the carbs in grains. Your body would be very happy if you never ate anymore grains (phytic acid and the insulin response is really hard on our systems) but would be very sad if you never ate another veggie:o)
Aliza
----- Original Message ----- From: E. E. Mitchamore Jr
To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] brix/ was vitamins, minerals and taste
I'd be interested in a non-biased source of information on "Brix". A while back I did a cursory search and it seemed to be a measurement of sugars. That idea is supported by this reference to "energy", but that's problematic. Sugar = carbohydrates = energy = calories, and I don't think that's our collective problem. We, at least in America, have too much "empty" energy in our diets. The problem is the loss of nutrients in our diets other than carbohydrates (vitamins, minerals, etc.). This problem is so serious related to the amount of processed foods in our diets that discussions of nutrient density in fresh fruit and vegetables is really missing the point. While we discuss the finer points of vegetable quality, the agribusiness corporations are making billions processing corn, soybeans and petroleum into pseudo-foods, and Americans are sucking them down to the detriment of their health.
Yes, I strongly believe we should grow and eat organic (and local), vegetables, but fussing about their size and nutrients is petty, compared to the ongoing massive insults to our diets and environment. Read The Omnivore's Dilemma or Real Food by Nina Planck.
E. E. "Mitch" Mitchamore
www.hillcountrynatives.biz
----- Original Message ----- From: TradingPostPaul
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 12:42 AM
Subject: [Livingontheland] brix/ was vitamins, minerals and taste
This is from the High Brix Gardens website
http://www.highbrixgardens.com/
This website is all about helping you improve your health by growing the
highest quality produce.
What is the difference between health and disease? What is the fundamental
cause of disease? What is true health and how do foods fit into this
matrix? The answer to these and many other perplexing problems can be
summed up in one word: energy. It is energy that determines the degree of
health or disease. It is the lack of energy that causes disease while the
right kind of energy causes us to be healthy. Food is an energy package
that can push us toward health or away from it. Energy is associated with
the minerals in foods. Thus the higher the mineral density in foods, the
higher the energy available to the body. This balance of energy can be
termed nutrition. Sickness and disease are the result of a nutritional
deficiency-not a drug deficiency.
-----------------
and from
http://www.highbrixgardens.com/garden/garden.html
The great thing about this approach to "growing your own nutrition" is
that as the quality improves so does the taste. The tremendous taste of
high brix foods alone would nearly compensate for all the effort it takes
to grow a High Brix Garden not even counting the incredible boost in health
and the long-term savings in medical and neutriceutical expenses.
----------------------
paul tradingpost@lobo.net
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:26:28 -0600
From: "TradingPostPaul" <tradingpost@riseup.net>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] brix/ was vitamins, minerals and taste
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <200709151326280530.0B263195@mail.lobo.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Most interesting. It always comes back to the reason I started this, to
learn more from others and pass it on. Those interested please do check out
Aliza's references for more on this.
Not having soil tests done and without long experience, I believed adding
aged manure, natural minerals, and alfalfa meal would feed the soil biology
what it needed. Yet no one could be more surprised at the taste and
productivity of these veggies, or the praise from others. Nothing else
grows for miles around in this soil but rabbit brush and junipers. We
haven't got around to shelling out for a refractometer yet.
paul tradingpost@lobo.net
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 9/15/2007 at 10:13 AM Aliza wrote:
While the measurement is of the sugars, plants bind minerals to the
sugars. The more sugars the more minerals. That is why high brix veggies
taste so much better and have much higher nutrient levels. the added
bonus is that high brix veggies are much less prone to insect attacks,
molds and fungus. A good high brix fruit will shrivel and dehydrate
instead of mold on your counter. If you want to learn more about this you
can contact the folks at high brix gardens, Jon Frank at www.aglabs.com or
Thomas Giannou at http://www.tandjenterprises.com. There is also a yahoo
group that deals with brix and both Jon and Thomas are on it. Both these
guys really understand soil biology and the way that plants uptake
nutrients. Read the work of Arden Anderson or Albrecht for a more
unbiased view.
Remember that the types of carbs in vegetables differ greatly from the
carbs in grains. Your body would be very happy if you never ate anymore
grains (phytic acid and the insulin response is really hard on our
systems) but would be very sad if you never ate another veggie:o)
Aliza
----- Original Message ----- From: E. E. Mitchamore Jr
To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] brix/ was vitamins, minerals and taste
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 22:46:32 -0400
From: Liz <liz@allslash.org>
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] spams?
To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <1189911841_41991@mail2.swva.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 12:16 PM 9/15/2007, you wrote:
Seems I must have accidentally let a couple spams through. I'm seeing
dozens of spams every day and I try to block each one with all posts on
moderate. We're really getting bombed for some reason ...
Everyone's mail servers are getting choked up with spam right now. I
have a friend who runs an ISP, and he said his spam had gone from
about ten thousand a day to over 100,000 a day in the last couple of
weeks. I'm on satellite internet, and their mail servers got so slow
I have to go back to my dial-up account sometimes to get my mail.
Liz in SW VA
http://life-as-a-spectator-sport.com
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 20:42:07 -0700
From: yarrow@sfo.com
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] As giant crops flourish, vitamins,
minerals and taste
To: Healthy soil and sustainable growing
<livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <f06110401c312540c1d1c@[66.81.79.30]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
At 12:20 AM -0500 9/15/07, <activism98201@verizon.net> wrote:
....>
It might be that no one was specifically measuring organics vs.
standard crops, or that measurements hadn't been done recently, but
this isn't the same as no measuring happening. Which leads me to
the real trouble I have with this, and that's that, IMO, the
industry didn't want to perform measurements; if this is the case
then I'd suspect it's because they didn't want such information out
there.
Yeah, but "the industry" did not commission this study; an
organization focused on promoting the benefits of organics did. I'd
guess "the industry" *still* doesn't want to use any of its resources
to perform measurements or promote this kind of information because
it doesn't think they're important. As long as consumers continue to
buy tasteless produce that was produced for the lowest cost, why
should the producers have to change anything they do? And, in fact, I
haven't seen this study reported in the mainstream press.
Among nongardeners I know, all of them appreciate free homegrown
produce, but very few go out of their way to buy organic, or even to
buy in season, because they don't see any reason to change their
habits.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 22:21:57 -0600
From: "TradingPostPaul" <tradingpost@riseup.net>
Subject: [Livingontheland] Is it too late to stop the ethanol con job?
To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <200709152221570920.0D107333@mail.lobo.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070914.wibreguly14/BNS
tory/robColumnsBlogs/home
Is it too late to stop the ethanol con job?
September 14, 2007 at 6:27 AM EDT
ROME ? Not so long ago, you could feel complacent - smug even - about
your little greenish exertions. You traded your SUV for a smaller set of
wheels. You bought compact florescent bulbs and dragged the old push mower
out of storage. You approved of ethanol and other biofuels and vowed to buy
them whenever possible. Okay, there wasn't a lot of sacrifice involved. But
you could feel a tad superior to your fossil-fuel-slurping neighbours.
You might feel a little less smug today. You might even feel guilty. Why?
Because biofuels aren't living up to their hype. By now, it's obvious they
won't cure the planet of its oil addiction or take the edge off global
warming - two of the alleged advantages touted by the biofuel industry.
Biofuels may even be harming the planet. The oil industry was never keen on
biofuels, but you never believed the oil industry. Now no less a sober
authority than the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development
says biofuels - notably ethanol, a fuel worshipped by governments, farmers
and refiners in Canada, the United States and parts of Europe - might be a
con job on a massive scale.
An OECD report released this week said biofuels may "offer a cure that is
worse than the disease they seek to heal." It said the vast amounts of land
devoted to biofuel production harms biodiversity and pollutes the
environment with herbicides and pesticides. (A July report put out by the
OECD and the UN's Food and Agriculture Organization said rising biofuel
demand is "underpinning higher agriculture prices" and will lead to a
"food-versus-fuel" debate).
The OECD recommended that governments "cease to create new mandates for
biofuels and investigate ways to phase them out." It recommended oil
conservation instead of "subsidizing inefficient new sources of [biofuels]
supply."
None of the OECD's musings, of course, is new. A small army of scientists
and environmentalists has warned for years that ethanol, especially of the
corn-based variety so popular in North America, is, at best, misleading
advertising, at worst, a crime against nature and taxpayers alike.
The warnings were simply buried by the endless propaganda peddled by the
ethanol movement and its slick lobbyists and PR men. To be against ethanol
was to be against farmers, un-green and unpatriotic. Less ethanol meant
more foreign oil, and no one wanted that.
Still the OECD report is welcome. But will it tip the balance against
ethanol? Forget it. Big Ethanol, like Big Oil and the big defence
contractors, is so well entrenched, so well organized and financed, that it
will roll over your farmland and your forests like an Abrams tank.
In the U.S., the ethanol business soaks up billions of dollars in subsidies
every year. At last count, there were no fewer than 123 ethanol plants on
the U.S. map, with another 75 or so in the works. The plants are getting
bigger, with some capable of producing 100 million gallons a year (like the
cynically named Patriot Renewable Fuels factory in Illinois' Cornhusker
territory). If the subsidies weren't enough, the Americans slap an import
tariff of 53 cents (U.S.) a gallon on Brazilian ethanol, which is made from
sugar cane and can be produced more cheaply than American ethanol.
Canada has become subsidy-mad too. Manitoba, for example, is offering
production incentives of 20 cents (Canadian) a litre for producers. Even
better (for the ethanol industry) are the provincial and national ethanol
content mandates. Manitoba passed a law requiring that 85 per cent of the
gasoline sold within the province contain 10-per-cent ethanol. Ontario's
requirement is 5 per cent, rising to 10 per cent in a few years. A national
program that will require a 5-per-cent blend is to come into effect in
2010. If all this weren't enough, the feds and Ontario exempt ethanol from
fuel taxes.
Europe is no ethanol slouch either, though wheat, sugar and straw are more
popular raw materials than corn. Plants are being built and the European
Union wants biofuels of every description to have a 5.75-per-cent share of
the transportation fuel market by 2010. Canadian-style tax breaks and
obligatory blending are coming into force.
Once given, incentives such has tax breaks are hard to take away. The
ethanol industry would collapse overnight without them, putting farmers and
refiners out of business, costing jobs and alienating voters. Sadly, the
ethanol industry is here to stay, whether taxpayers on both sides of the
Atlantic want it or not. This is Soviet-style central planning at its very
worst. If ethanol were good for consumers and good for the planet,
consumers wouldn't be forced to pay for it through their taxes and forced
to buy it through legislation. If you want to impress your neighbours with
your green credentials, vote for politicians - if you can find one - who
vow to kill the ethanol industry.
------------------------------
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End of Livingontheland Digest, Vol 109, Issue 7
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[Livingontheland] spams,
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- Re: [Livingontheland] spams, Tradingpost, 09/16/2007
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