Internetworkers: http://www.ibiblio.org/internetworkers/

["Andrew C. Oliver" <acoliver AT buni.org>]

Broadband coops...Okay but they don't actually exist or at least 
anywhere near here.  I'm not going to start one.  I will however vote 
for a local fiber optic network if it were to come to pass provided 
there was a reasonable tax associated.  I mean shit it can't be worse 
than what I pay Time Warner!   So the next step Phil, propose some 
legislation or something that makes this happen... a new FDR-style New 
Deal Coop for broadband!  I'll sign up for service.

However this is where I have ideology.  Is support decreasing the 
centralization of power from the federal and state governments and more 
restored to the local governments where I have a stronger vote.  (To be 
clear Federal power decreased and restored to states, states power 
reduced and restored to local).  So I'm not for anything that says what 
I can and can't vote my local government to do unless its something 
clear like race discrimination.

So I'll play your game...here is my analysis of this prickly little 
morsel of corporate welfare...

http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2007/Bills/House/HTML/H1587v2.html
(7d)
"Upon making specific findings as to the factors in subsections (b) and 
(c) of this section, the local government shall, by a majority vote, 
call for a special election under G.S. 163-287 on the question of 
whether the local government shall provide the proposed communications 
service to the public through a local government owned communications 
service provider. If a majority of the votes cast in the special 
election are for the local government providing communications service, 
the local government may provide the communications service as 
authorized in this Part. "

special elections are expensive and not required for most other normal 
business.  I do not see why this issues is special.

"A bond issued pursuant to this section shall be secured and paid for 
solely from the revenues generated by the local government owned 
communications service provider. A local government may not pay the 
origination, financing, or other carrying costs associated with bonds 
issued under this section from the local government's general fund or 
public enterprise funds."

Which means you must borrow and cannot use any general funds. 
Ironically while most money is raised via property taxes (a truly 
regressive system that does bad things for education I admit) and such 
networks might raise property values...they cannot be funded from that 
benefit.

"      Shall not subsidize the cost of providing communications service 
with funds from any other noncommunications service, operation, or other 
revenue source, including any funds or revenue generated from electric, 
gas, water, sewage, or garbage services. In complying with this 
requirement, a local government owned communications service provider 
shall not price any communications service below the cost of providing 
the service. If a determination is made that a direct or indirect 
subsidy has been made, the local government owned communications service 
provider shall immediately increase prices for the communications 
service in a manner that ensures that the subsidy shall not continue, 
and any amounts used directly or indirectly to subsidize the past 
operations shall be reimbursed to the local government's general fund."

A very difficult thing to do if in the first year it is not immediately 
profitable.  Very few cable or communications providers are able to 
operate this way and be immediately profitable.  This is to say most 
business operate at a loss at first.  Often times market pressures do 
not allow you to raise the cost.  However if the infrastructure and 
startup costs over time balance out then they may become profitable. 
However why does this city/local utility get special treatment?  Why is 
it not just sewage, etc.  Why do my parents pay lower taxes and yet 
their garbage pickup (municipal) is cheaper than mine?  Because 
sometimes *gasp* such services are best provided as a public good :-)

"Shall annually remit to the general fund of the local government owning 
or having an economic interest in the communications service provider an 
amount equivalent to all taxes or fees a private communications service 
provider would be required to pay the local government or county in 
which the local government is located, including any applicable tax 
refunds received by the local government-owned communications service 
provider because of its local government status. The amount remitted to 
the local government's general fund shall include a sum equal to the 
amount of property tax that would have been due if the local 
government-owned communications service provider were a private 
communications service provider."

I don't want the city/county/etc taxing itself.  That is a waste of 
paper and is needless bureaucracy.

"Shall provide nondiscriminatory access to private communications 
service providers on a first-come, first-served basis to rights-of-way, 
poles, conduits, or other permanent distribution facilities owned, 
leased, or operated by the local government unless the facilities have 
insufficient capacity for the access and additional capacity cannot 
reasonably be added to the facilities. For purposes of this subdivision, 
the term "nondiscriminatory access" means that, at a minimum, access 
shall be granted on the same terms and conditions as that given to a 
local government-owned communications service provider and at rates that 
do not exceed the rates prescribed for attachments by cable service 
providers providing cable service as provided in 47 U.S.C. § 224(e) of 
the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, and in 47 C.F.R. § 
1.1409(e)(1)."

Why?  And okay so they have to raise the rate on ME until its profitable 
but can sell to the cable company potentially at a loss?  SCREW THAT! 
Who decides what is non-discriminatory?  Does that mean TWC can buy up 
all the bandwidth then sell it back to me at 2x what they paid?  (while 
funneling it through charlotte and bottlenecking it there to a slow drop)

"To ensure that local government-owned communications service providers 
and private communications service providers are, to the extent 
possible, able to compete equally and fairly in the marketplace, the 
Department of Insurance shall determine the State average market rate 
for private liability insurance for communications providers, and the 
rate paid for liability insurance by local government-owned 
communications providers shall be equal to or greater than that rate. If 
a local government-owned communications service provider pays less than 
the average market rate for liability insurance as established by the 
Department of Insurance, the local government-owned communications 
provider shall remit the difference to the general fund of the local 
government that owns the communications provider."

Um again why?  If the insurance industry has decided that municipalities 
 are a lower risk than the industry as a whole...why since we've 
hobbled the crap out of the utility's ability to start up (especially 
since barrier to entry and startup costs are the biggest problem for 
creating such infrastructure) do we then need to take a second pass and 
make sure the insurance industry doesn't cut the municipal utility any 
breaks?

""§ 160A-329.6.  Injunctive Relief.

The provisions of this Part may be enforced by any party aggrieved by 
the actions of a local government communications provider by bringing an 
action for injunctive relief in the superior court in the county in 
which the local government communications provider is located."

SECTION 2.  G.S. 62-3(23) is amended by adding the following new 
sub-sub-subdivision to read:

"l.         The term "public utility" shall include any municipality 
providing service as defined in G.S. 62-3(23)a.6. and subject to 
regulation under Part 1A of Article 16 of Chapter 160A of the General 
Statutes.""


and there is the real meat. ...  the ability of the phone and cable 
companies to threaten and tie up any locality that tries to do this in 
court until rapture..

however version 3 is just fun: 
http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2007/Bills/House/HTML/H1587v3.html

It is a big waste of money for a "study" that will say what the cable 
cos want it to say :-)..  I wonder who we can get to do this....well I 
know who...these people are experts http://www.ncta.com/

Hey maybe they can study net neutrality for us while they are at it:
"Confused about the issue?  See the industry's newest advertisement."
http://www.ncta.com/ContentView.aspx?ContentID=3526

Wow it is so simple now!  :-)

-Andy


Phillip Rhodes wrote:
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>
> Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> > Its easy to be "against" but what are you "for" rather than some
> > half-baked untested political ideology -- give me a *practical*
> > proposoal to free us from the crappy assed service of TWC and BellSouth
> > etc.  
>
> Background:
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_cooperative>
>
> Example: Electrical cooperatives in the Missouri and Illinois, who
> already have access to right-of-ways, poles, etc., entering the
> broadband market to serve their communities:
>
> <http://www.cbn.coop>
>
>
> So yes, broadband by voluntary cooperatives can be done.
>
>
> TTYL,
>
>
> Phil
>
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>
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