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[Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>]

Oh!!  maybe this is the Norwegian town under ice reference. 

I found this in one article.........

"Earth's climate was in a cool period from A.D. 1400 to about A.D. 1860, 
dubbed the "Little Ice Age." This period was characterized by harsh winters, 
shorter growing seasons, and a drier climate. The decline in global 
temperatures was a modest 1/2° C, but the effects of this global cooling 
cycle were more pronounced in the higher latitudes. The Little Ice Age has 
been blamed for a host of human suffering including crop failures like the 
"Irish Potato Famine" and the demise of the medieval Viking colonies in 
Greenland.  Today we enjoy global temperatures which have warmed back to 
levels of the so called "Medieval Warm Period," which existed from 
approximately A.D. 1000 to A.D. 1350." 

............Which then provided a link to this NY Times article:
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Reference_Docs/NYT-vikings_greenland/NYT-vikings_greenland.html
"At the Viking site near here, artifacts were locked in permafrost and buried 
under several feet of sand."
 
The article talks about the effects of global cooling, which forced people to 
move out of areas that became too cold to live in.  Now the planet is warm 
enough and had uncovered at least this one area where people used to live 
when temperatures were warmer.



________________________________
From: Chris Clarke <hstead AT nc.rr.com>
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 2:10:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Climate-Gate

Yes,  the planet HAS been this warm before.  It has even been warmer that 
this.  Remember, the nobility in France were peeved that England was 
producing the best wine in the 11th century.

However, that is NOT to say that anthropogenic greenhouse warming is NOT a 
problem.  I think that it clearly has been shown.    If you have been 
around this group long enough, you will remember I was one of the most 
ardent OPPENENTS of "global warming", but the evidence is gone beyond the 
point that it can be disputed.    Yes, there have been foils, plots and 
underhandedness, but the complete corpus of evidence is clear: Anthropogenic 
warming is occuring.  What this means in 100, 500 years, is another matter, 
but I digress.

Leslie is right...  all energy needs to be local.  Cut the petro-crap, and 
the problem of transmission.  The same can be said for water and food. 
Don't hold your breath, though.  Can't control the population if they are 
energy (water and food) independent..

Chris
Apex, NC

> On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ..........  When I learned that a town was discovered underneath a 
> receeding
>> glacier in Norway that clearly tells me that the globe has been this warm
>> before - and it was before the invention of cars and coal plants.)

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DH is a news junkie.  He watches all the channels.  Where did you see the
interview where the director is supposed to have said they destroyed data?
I'd like to read the transcript.

So, what would you prefer, private industry funding?  Cookie sales?

The ol' follow the money applies to ALL scientific research!  And, during
the Bush years the scientists that were cheered on said that global warming
didn't exist.

Lynda
--"I'm fascinated by the hard line you're drawing over religion -- It gets
used too much, as an excuse, a fall guy, a weapon, a con.  A lot of people,
maybe most, don't mean it except when it suits them."  Dallas
----- Original Message -----
From: <DSanner106 AT aol.com>


> It is true, I saw an interview with the director who said they had
> destroyed all gathered data from the 80's  forward that they used to draw
> their
> conclusions from. This is the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Scientists
> who
> disagreed were fired and silenced. Papers with opposing views were not
> published. We will see a wave of scientists with opposing views coming
> forward.
> I even saw Al Gore, verbally admit that in the past the rise in CO2
> levels
> followed, rather than proceeded global warming and may be a result rather
> than a cause.
>
> As the son of a top research scientist, I can attest to many occasions on
> which he was upset over the manipulation of data to assure further funding
> of  projects. Climatologists have had to scratch out funding in the past,
> but
> their  profession is hot right now and the sky is the limit on funding as
> long as the  crisis continues. I lived through the whole "CO2 levels are
> causing the coming  of the next ice age" scare in the 70's. My father said
> that
> was fake and sure  enough, it was. Now the same data is being rolled out
> as
> proof of global  warming. The real shame of this is we have no idea which
> scientists to trust  going forward. Science is supposed to be pure and
> politics should not play a  role, but as long as government funding is
> used to pay
> for the research we will  have conflicts of interest.
>
> Drew
>
>
> In a message dated 12/10/2009 3:27:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> cayadopi AT yahoo.com writes:
>
> Chris  writes:  "...However, that is NOT to say that anthropogenic
> greenhouse  warming is NOT a problem.  I think that it clearly has been
> shown... "
>
>
> I disagree.  I do not believe it has been  "clearly shown".  The whole
> scandal in "climate-gate", the hacked e-mails  from the global warming
> scientists are at the beginning phase of unraveling a  collusion by
> climate
> scientsist to WITHHOLD information that contains any data  contrary to
> their global
> warming theory.  Withholding scientific data  leads me to instantly
> question
> the results of their conclusions.  How can  you arrive at specific
> conclusions based on one-sided data?
>
> When I  first posted "climate-gate" there wasn't any US media coverage
> besides  Fox.  This a/m I'm seeing it on NBC news.   So it seems that at
> least
> 1 other regular TV station is reporting the scandal  besides Fox.   I've
> been out of town most of the last 5 weeks,  and I'm behind on some things,
> especially TV watchings, which I don't do much  of anyway.
>
> Now it will be interesting to see what comes of the latest  rumor, the
> reports that scientists from the E. Aglia Climatic Research Unit  have
> admitted
> to destroying the raw data used to arrive at their conclusions,  which
> means
> other scientists can not check their  work.
>
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece
>
>
> ________________________________
> From:  Chris Clarke <hstead AT nc.rr.com>
> To:  homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 2:10:50  PM
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Climate-Gate
>
> However, that is NOT to say  that anthropogenic greenhouse warming is NOT
> a
> problem.  I think that  it clearly has been shown.
>
>
>
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