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  • From: william Eggers <wce1482 AT yahoo.com>
  • To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [Homestead] Go ld -- feel free to ignore
  • Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 10:53:14 -0800 (PST)

I took economics in college and had a heck of a time even passing it, so I am
not into economic theory.  As a general rule however I think that it is
always better to have people work for what they get instead of just giving it
to them.

--- On Mon, 12/8/08, VAN DELL JORDAN <vdjor AT yahoo.com> wrote:

From: VAN DELL JORDAN <vdjor AT yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Go ld -- feel free to ignore
To: wce1482 AT yahoo.com
Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 11:49 AM

--- On Mon, 12/8/08, william Eggers <wce1482 AT yahoo.com> wrote:

> Backing off won't work. And although as James says
> money must eventually come from work.  To get the system
> back on track. somehow money just go from those who have it
> now to those  who will spend it.  Work is best, but
> someone has to pay the workers and if the money is being
> hoarded by a few, no one is able to pay the workers,
> therefore they can not work and thus will have nothing with
> which to buy.  If the govenment sets up work that results
> in something to sell, we have socialism or communism.  So
> the government must find something or someway to get money
> to workers without undercutting business.  The Egyptians
> did it by building great monuments.  We have in the past
> done it by building roads and public buildings.  Regardless
> of how it is done, some way must be found to get the money
> back to those who will spend it.  First it must be pryed
> out of those who have stockpiled it up by unfair or illegial
> means then some way must be found to get
> it to where it will do some good.  Just giving anything
> to anyone, be in workers or bankers, devaluates what is
> given.  To have value, it must be earned.  The only inity
> big enough to do this is the government.  If it
> doesn't, the debt it now has will be nothing to what it
> would be as the government income is mostly from workers and
> if they don't have, the government can't get it. 
> So it is either help the workers get some money to spend or
> everything as we know it goes down the drain.
>

Would this be a good time to ask, what is money? The basic purpose of money
is
to provide a means for exchange of goods and services.
If we provide a way for people to get there needs are we limited to the
traditional ways of creating money.
Maybe in times like this we need to see if current definitions of money supply
are appropriate? I think the answer to this question gets very complex and
gets
into economic theory.

I have often thought that perhaps we should find a way to provide a job for
everyone. Start by turning any "welfare" into "workfare".
If regular jobs are not available, then we could go to public works projects.
Van Dell




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PRO/AH/EDR> Dioxin contamination, pig meat - Ireland, Europe

DIOXIN CONTAMINATION, PIG MEAT - IRELAND, EUROPE
************************************************
A ProMED-mail post
<http://www.promedmail.org>
ProMED-mail is a program of the
International Society for Infectious Diseases
<http://www.isid.org>

[1] Ireland
Date: Sat 6 Dec 2008
Source: Irish Times [edited]
<http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1206/breaking44.htm>


All Irish pork products have been recalled tonight [6 Dec 2008]
because of fears that animal feed has been contaminated with harmful
toxins.

The Food Safety Authority of Ireland made the announcement shortly
before 8 pm after pig meat on a number of farms was found to have had
between 80 and 200 times more dioxins that the recognized safety
limit.

The recall affects all products produced since 1 Sep 2008, and the
public have been advised to destroy all pork bought since that date.

The recall will have very severe repercussions for the State's pork
industry, which is worth close to half a billion euros [USD 500
million] annually.

The announcement was made at a joint press briefing held by the FSAI
and the Departments of Health and Agriculture.

The contamination 1st came to light last Monday but was only
confirmed by Government officials today [6 Dec 2008].

Agriculture Minister Brendan Smith said an "intensive investigation"
had been underway this week. He said 47 farms, including 38 beef
farms, had been restricted because they were identified as having
received possibly contaminated animal feed. There was only one feed
supplier involved, he said.

"Full prohibition of animal movement from these herds is in place.
We've outlined the actions that we're taking on recall of pork and
bacon following the receipt of the laboratory results earlier this
evening. The issue of beef involvement is very different. Our
assessment on the basis of advice from the Food Safety Authority of
Ireland is that no further action at this stage other than what we
have done in prohibiting movement off the farms is required. Testing
is, however, taking place on a precautionary basis in line with our
overall approach to this problem."

Earlier this week, restrictions were placed on a number of pig farms
after organic pollutants known as polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs),
which are linked to dioxins, were detected in pork fat during routine
monitoring.

Dioxins are complex organic compounds released into the atmosphere
from fires and other forms of combustion. They are naturally
occurring and accumulate in the fat of animal or in plant tissue.

They are mostly found in insignificant levels, but a small number are
highly toxic and can cause a range of ailments from cancer to skin
diseases and damage to the reproductive and immune systems.

Consumption of dioxins above safe levels over a lifetime may result
in an increased risk of cancer. The World Health Organisation and the
European Union's Scientific Committee for Food have determined the
levels of exposure to dioxins which are safe. The pork tested this
week had up to 200 times more dioxins than is considered safe.

Rod Evans, a spokesman for the FSAI told Irishtimes.com that the
health risks were likely to be "very small" and said a short period
"of higher level exposure to the dioxins is unlikely to have any
health consequences."

The Minister for Health, Mary Harney, said she and Ministers Smith,
Sargent and Wallace had spent the day in discussions with experts.

"I think we've acted in a timely fashion given that the confirmation
happened at 3.40 this afternoon [6 Dec 2008] from the laboratories in
York in the UK," she said.

"From now on, those products will be withdrawn from the market
obviously here and internationally. We hope that non-contaminated
pork products can be very quickly back on the market ... provided
they operate to the highest possible standards as far as public
health is concerned."

The president of the IFA Padraig Walshe said the recall was "an
absolute disaster" at an "important time of the year for the pig
sector." Speaking on RTE television, he said he expected "perfectly
safe" pork from Irish producers to be on sale again by the middle of
next week.

Tonight's [6 Dec 2008] recall involves retailers, the hospitality
sector and the Irish pig processing sector, and the FSAI advised
people "as a precautionary measure not to consume Irish pork and
bacon products at this time."

The statement said investigations involving the Department of
Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (DAFF) and the FSAI were continuing
to determine the extent of the contamination and to identify the
processors and products involved. It said that updates about the
extent of the risk from human consumption would also be made
available.

In recent years, there have been a number of dioxin contamination
incidents of food worldwide. In 1998, dioxin-contaminated citrus pulp
from Brazil was used in feed for dairy animals in France and resulted
in contaminated milk. A year later in Belgium, dioxin-laden machine
oil contaminated animal feed, affecting poultry, eggs, red meat and
milk, which caused a major food crisis.

The pig farming industry is the 4th largest sector in Irish
agriculture, and some 400 pig farmers are operating in the sector.

[Byline: Conor Pope and Mary Minhan]

- --
Communicated by:
ProMED-mail Rapporteur Mary Marshall

******
[2] Europe ex Ireland
Date: Sun 7 Dec 2008
Source: AFP [edited]
<http://www.google.com:80/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hxbM5LQKLljqnPfx4CdsCOHL-A-A>



Ireland launched an intensive investigation on Sunday [7 Dec 2008] to
establish the source of a toxic substance that forced the recall of
all Irish pork products, the country's food authorities said.

The Irish government ordered the recall on Saturday [6 Dec 2008] of
all pig meat products made in the Republic of Ireland after dioxins
were discovered in slaughtered pigs thought to have eaten
contaminated feed. The recall included products sold in Ireland and
abroad.

Contaminated Irish pork was found in France and Belgium, but the Food
Safety Authority of Ireland (FSAI) said the problem was restricted to
"Irish pig meat related to an Irish feedstuff." The European
Commission said it was closely monitoring the situation.

The FSAI said it was almost certain that the source of the
contamination was oil which mistakenly found its way into pig feed
made at an Irish factory.

Dioxins are toxic chemicals that can have serious health effects,
including causing cancers, if there is long-term exposure to them at
high levels.

FSAI deputy chief executive Alan Reilly said dioxin levels found in
meat samples were "between 80 and 200 times" above the legal limit.
But he said the risk to public health was "very, very low. "You would
have to be eating products containing these chemicals for 40 years
before you would show any signs of illness."

Rhodri Evans, FSAI chief toxicology specialist, told AFP that oil was
the most probable cause of the contamination and that it was
"possibly" diesel oil at a plant in Ireland that used recycled bread
and dough to make a pig feed. The feed plant supplied 9 pork
producers. "The profile of the dioxin we have seen would indicate it
is usually associated with some sort of oil contamination," he said.

Ireland's chief medical officer, Dr Tony Holohan, said the withdrawal
of all pork products from the market was "a precautionary public
health measure."

The recall involves pork meat, bacon, pork sausages, sausage meat,
gammon steaks, offal from pigs, salami, ham, sausage rolls, black
pudding and white pudding. The products concerned were all made since
September 2008, because scientific evidence suggests the
contamination was recent.

Ireland is a major exporter of pork with products sent to Britain --
the main destination -- and countries including Japan, Germany,
Russia, France and the United States.

Laboratory tests in Britain had confirmed the presence of dioxins in
both pig meat and pig feed samples. Evans said tests in France and
Belgium had also revealed contaminated Irish pork products. Both
countries had received products from a processing plant in the
Netherlands where sides of pork from Ireland were boned and processed
before being shipped on. "The initial detection was by the French
authorities at import control. They did routine testing and saw a
result," Evans said. "When they saw the result, they went back to the
Netherlands processor and asked what's happening, where did this come
from?" Evans said the problem only involved "Irish pig meat related
to an Irish feedstuff."

The crisis is another blow to recession-hit Ireland, with the
agriculture ministry saying about 5000 people work in the pig meat
industry, which is worth about 400 million euros [USD 500 million] a
year.

Ireland's Europe Minister Dick Roche said the contamination was "a
shock to the system" for Irish agriculture.

The European Commission said in a statement it was "closely following
up this contamination incident and the actions taken to withdraw any
potentially contaminated pork meat and pork meat products from the
market."

EU food safety experts were to discuss the incident by telephone on
Sunday [7 Dec 2008], and experts from countries that may have
received contaminated shipments would meet on Tuesday, said
commission spokesman Pietro Petrucci.

- --
Communicated by:
Sabine Zentis
Castleview Pedigree English Longhorns
Gut Laach 52385 Nideggen, Germany
<CVLonghorns AT aol.com>

[Mod.TG recently wrote: "Although there seems to be no doubt in the
lay press about dioxin's status as a carcinogen, there seems to be
some controversy in the toxicology literature (Bertazzi PA, Bernucci
I, Brambilla G, Consonni D, Pesatori AC: The Seveso studies on early
and long-term effects of dioxin exposure: a review. Environ Health
Perspect 1998 Apr; 106 Suppl 2:625-33, available at
<http://www.ehponline.org/docs/1998/Suppl-2/625-633bertazzi/abstract.html>)."

For WHO's Fact sheet N225 "Dioxins and their effects on human
health," updated November 2007, go to
<http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs225/en/index.html>.
- Mod.AS]

[Another news story communicated by ProMED-mail Rapporteur Mary Marshall
<http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081207/ts_nm/us_ireland_food_recall>
states that tainted pork products from Ireland may have reached 20-25
countries. - Mod.LM]

[see also:
Dioxin, buffalo mozzarella cheese - Italy: (Campania) 20080327.1146
2006
- ----
Dioxin, animal feed - Belgium (02) 20060206.0390
Dioxin, animal feed - Belgium 20060130.0303
2004
- ----
Dioxin, feed contamination - Netherlands (02): exported 20041110.3042
Dioxin, feed contamination - Netherlands 20041106.3009
2003
- ----
Dioxin, feed contamination - Germany (Thuringia) 20030210.0363
2001
- ----
Dioxin food levels, WHO statement 20010108.0065
2000
- ----
Dioxin contamination, fish - Europe 20001218.2213
1999
- ----
Dioxin in meat, poultry, eggs banned again - Belgium 19991109.2006
Dioxin & PCB contam., food - Belgium: update 19990729.1281
Dioxin in meat, poultry & eggs - Belgium (06) 19990630.1101
Dioxin food contamination, international response (06) 19990617.1032
Dioxin poultry ban lifted - Belgium (02) 19990613.1011
Dioxin & PCB contamination of food - Germany 19990613.1010
Dioxin: websites available 19990611.1002
Dioxin food contamination, international response (05) 19990611.1001
Dioxin & PCB contamination of food - Belgium 19990610.0999
Dioxin poultry ban lifted - Belgium 19990609.0989
Dioxin food contamination, international response (04) 19990609.0987
Dioxin health assessments (02) 19990609.0986
Dioxin food contamination, international response(03) 19990609.0980
Dioxin in meat, poultry & eggs - Belgium (04) 19990608.0978
Dioxin contamination of meat: USA response (02) 19990607.0967
Dioxin food contamination, international response(02) 19990607.0966
Dioxin contamination of meat: USA response 19990605.0941
Dioxin food contamination, international response 19990604.0930
Dioxin health assessments 19990604.0929
Dioxin contamination, pigs - Belgium 19990604.0928
Dioxin, chicken & eggs contaminated - Belgium 19990531.0913]
...................................................arn/msp/lm





Modern technology / Owes ecology / An apology. -Alan M. Eddison




__,_._,___
>From lurine AT softcom.net Mon Dec 8 14:57:52 2008
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From: "Lynda" <lurine AT softcom.net>
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And what's a hoot can be found in the e-mail I sent earlier. The Irish
pigs, the Belgium chocolate, etc. have been contamined by feed which has
been contaminated by . . . drumroll . . . the Chinese who are now batting
their eyelashes and *trying* to look innocent when they refuse food from
other countries. They play pretend, using the good ol' grammar school kid
when he was caught "well, they did it too." Ah NOT!

Well, except for the orange pulp which came from Brazil, most of the
contaminates that have gotten into the food sources have originated in
China!

Lynda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene GeRue" <genegerue AT ruralize.com>


> Much melamine chatter lately. I like balance. This is from
> ShanghaiDaily:
>
>
> Safety alert raised over some European foods
> By Chen Qian | 2008-12-8 | ONLINE EDITION
>
>
> A FOOD risk alert was raised after several foods imported from Europe
> were found with safety problems, the General Administration of Quality
> Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine announced.
>
> The administration asked all provincial Entry-Exit Inspection and
> Quarantine Bureaus to enforce the check to those foods for the next 90
> days, it said on its Website.
>
> Further action will be taken after an appraisal made in three months,
> the administration said.
>
> The unqualified foods were either destroyed or sent back, it said.
>
> Foods with safety problems included Belgian chocolate, Italian brandy,
> British sauce, eggs from the Netherlands and Spanish milk products.
>
> They were found containing chemical ingredients more than the national
> limit, the administration said.
>
> http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/?id83697&type=National
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  • Re: [Homestead] Go ld -- feel free to ignore, william Eggers, 12/08/2008

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