Homestead mailing list

[Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com>]

James wrote:  "This cycle has played out many, many times in history 
including in this 
country in the 1930's.  It points out that the gold never had an intrinsic 
value, 
but rather depened on the hope that the government would reestablish and 
enforce a monetary policy giving the gold a value."
 
 
Hmmm,,,,,
 
The value of gold currently is not established by any government in the 
world.   
 
No government in the world currently uses gold to back their currency.
 
Central Bankers do use force to manipulate the price down - to keep the 
competition away from the brand of currency that Central Bankers want to 
establish as valuable and push on the public whether they want to use it or 
not.
 
And yet gold trades every day and has a priced value established between two 
traders, without any hope that the governments or Central Bankers will 
re-establish a gold standard, and regardless of what use they intend to put 
it to - whether jewelry or a paperweight.
 
While there are some gold bugs who wish for the re-establishment of a gold 
backed currency, the authors of most of the articles I've read really don't 
have any hope of that.  They only believe that at some point in time, they 
will be able to trade their gold for whatever non-gold backed currency 
exists, at a value established between two traders.  And they hope to trade 
the gold for a higher value, while knowing it may be for a lesser value.
 
As to intrinsic value.  I can't think of any intrinsic value to gold.  You 
can't grow food on it, you can't eat it, etc.
 
Value of things are established by man or men for either personal use or 
trade.  (Of course animals have their own way of valuing things, as do 
plants... LOL.)
 
One man may look at a rock and see value its value can be used to build a 
shelter, the next man may see value the same rock to use as a weapon to smash 
another man's head.  But the rock just sitting there has no intrinsic value, 
unless it is in the desert, then it might help hold some sand in place so a 
plant can grab hold and establish itself....  
 
In the investing world, Scam Street often talks about intrinsic values of 
companies versus the value that men are willing to pay, which almost always 
has absolutely nothing to do with the alleged intrinsic value.    
 
With gold the value is the price that another man is willing to pay using 
another medium of exchange (currency, rice, chicken, whatever) regardless of 
the concept of "intrinsic value". 
 
 
 
 



>From bobford79 AT yahoo.com  Mon Dec  8 06:39:47 2008
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Answers within, marked by asteriks:
==========================================================================



--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Leslie <cayadopi AT yahoo.com> wrote:


> Moriarity ....  Revolution.  He's right.  These kind
> of events are the breeding ground for revolution.  

> I suspect..... It is likely no accident that FEMA can suspend the
> constitution and institue martial law. It is likely no accident that one of 
> the triggers is socialunrest, high unemployment, and depression 
> conditions.It is no accident that small farmers are under attack, as
the food production/supply needs to be controlled by the State...for 
distribution.It is no accident that military troops are being positioned
on standby around the country.



*******  We share some of the same worries, here; but I'm not really sure 
where you are going with this.............
  


> My comments earlier about the black helicopters.  FEMA helicopters.  They 
> allegedly have a base somewhere aroundhere, allegedly a training camp for 
> FEMA,  but rumored to be a concentration camp.



****** Are all of FEMA's heicopter's "black", or just the ones you see ;-)  ? 
 Around 'where' is this rumored "concentration camp"?




> Allegedly FEMA has converted some 10 military bases into camps to house US 
> citizens.


****** FEMA isn't that efficient or competent
 


> Once I was somewhere in Mexico, on a mini-tour to some
> ancient Mayan ruins.  The guide claimed he was a decendent
> of the Mayans.  As he walked us around, explaining what the
> various remains were, he explained that the Mayans
> didn't mysteriously disappear.  Rather, the peasants
> rose up in anger against their leaders and killed them
> off.  In killing off the leaders, they killed off the
> knowledge of their culture and disappeared into the forests
> and returned to living in a dark ages.
>  
> Is it possible here that people rise up and kill their
> employers and local government employees in anger?


****** Anything is posssible, I suppose ................
 


> Zimbabwe here is not impossible.  I don't know much about the country.  I'm 
> going to guess that pre-hyperinflation, our economies, education, 
> government were very different.  There are a lot of other countries really 
> pissed at us.  Putin has hatched a plan to destroy us and signed up others. 
>  Who knows how far that is going.

******  learn about Zimbabwe , pre Mugabe (Rhodesia)  




> There are an awful lot of educated people and semi-educated people, that 
> could think they can run things in this country.  So Soviet like conditions 
> may be a bit closer to our future.  Where the government decides 
> everything,allocates everything, spies on everyone. 



****** The government is already spying on us; so are the corporations; 
what's your point?  I'd rather have a bunch of farmers and fireman, community 
bankers, and high school math teachers, in congress than what we have now.  
Why would that be a bad thing?

 

> From the little I know, we almost went that path after the '29 crash and 
> subsequent depression.  A book written in the UK, The Road to Serfdom, 
> while not popular in the UK, apparently became a bit hit here in the US and 
> allegedly steered us away from that course back then. 


****** Hayek is an Icon in the libertarian movement.  He also won the Nobel 
prize, but I believe you are simplifying history ............




> as the economic conditions worsen either thru massive depression, worse 
> than the 30s, or thru a hyper-inflationary depression here and in other 
> countries, if will we travel the road the Russians took in their 
> Revolultion, or travel the road of revolt away from oppression.

****** It might come to neither
 



> Our government is not going to give up easily.  Lincoln attacked the South 
> when they wanted to seceed.  Now they are clearly spying on US citizens for 
> without cause. Rights are violated daily.  Our government kills people, and 
> seizes their children, if they are"different", if they are individuals.  

*******Okay, I'll generally agree, and it angers me to agree............
  



And the population, sensing danger, is instinctively arming themselves.  I 
don't know if they know who the enemy is.  But I do know, talk of secession, 
and deep anger at the government is growing. As is anger at business 
executives and Scam Street.  I rarely interact with people
outside my little circle of friends, so I was shocked when I was traveling as 
I spoke with people in airports and airplanes.  I have never seen people this 
pissed off and never seen people talking opening about seceeding from the 
Union in a dead serious tone.  The fingers are pointing at Scam Street and 
the government.  I can't see either of those two giving up their power 
without a fight.  

****** I am trying to see where you are going .......



> And there is the other group in the population, those who feel entitled.



******  Who do you think makes up that group?
 
 


Total collapse, dark ages style, isn't out of the question either.  You've 
read Rand.  At some point,producers shrug, people give up...  



***** You will not find me as big an adherent to all things Rand, as you 
might think.  Who 'are" the producers, today ?



In an online philosophy course at the Rand Institute, they stated that that 
scenario would play out not in the speaker's lifetime, but in his children's. 
 I couldn't quite tell his age, possibly 15 or so years older than me.  

***** He was just another man, teaching an online course ,,,,,,,,,,,,

 
>  
> Some things noticed in Ecuador:  

*******When were you in Ecudor?
>  







> 
> --- On Sun, 12/7/08, bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 

> Listen to this audio (click on the link, below).  Whe you click on the link 
> look for the audio by Bob Moriarity near the top of the page. 
He runs 321Energy and 321Gold, I think Don or someone has mentioned the site 
before.  Today he is throwing allin , so to speak, 'talking pitchforks and 
revolution
> 
> Cycles fascinate me , also.  'it's like liquid
> math.