Homestead mailing list

[bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>]

I read your entire reply.. from what I can tell it is one of those gov't 
areas with different people, doing different things all from the point of 
view of what they have been taught and what they are allowed to spend.  

What Texas might need is somone with the skills to co-ordinate all of this 
into a functional version of what you seek. 

Texas has money, but gov't is slow to change.  Texas is biiger than most 
countries and has a bigger budget.  Maybe there should be 'regional' DOTs, 
headed by knowledgeable botanists with long term vision, and budget 
practicality.  

If I knew everything you know about plants/trees/grasses and their parasites 
and pestililents, I'd never sleep once I moved to the country   :-)  
....bobford



------------------------------------------------------------------------


--- On Wed, 11/5/08, eureka AT hctc.net <eureka AT hctc.net> wrote:

> From: eureka AT hctc.net <eureka AT hctc.net>
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Roadside managemnt was: Beetle Invasion in N.E.
> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 12:33 PM
> That's a very good question. The Wildflower Center puts
> on 
> a conference "Managing Roadsides Naturally" every
> few 
> years and it is well attended by DOTs from all over the 
> nation (and Mrs. Johnson when she was alive). I was often 
> consulted by TXDOT on wildflowers for roadside mixes...but 
> then I'd be driving around and see California poppies 
> coming up in the middle of the bluebonnets. This means 
> they either got their seed from growers I did not 
> recommend or whatever I suggested just went in one ear and 
> out the other. Or worse, they just scraped all the topsoil 
> off in a project, taking the seedbed who knows where, and 
> brought in topsoil from who knows where full of invasive 
> grass. Nothing like losing your wildflowers to Johnson 
> grass or KR.
> 
> TXDOT has their own regional landscape architects, but if 
> you recall my story on fighting them to keep our ROW trees 
> from being cut down "for safety purposes" they
> seem to be 
> all about contracting mowers (and designing roadside 
> welcome signs to cities), just like our extension agents 
> are all about managing for deer. Our LA is headquartered 
> in the desert about four hours away, where there are no 
> trees.
> 
> Here's some possible clues from a good abstract
> I've heard 
> presented on the subject:
> http://repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1089&context=jmie/roadeco
> 
> "A key issue is the skill level of managers
> responsible 
> for overseeing the project. In this regard, DOTs are 
> usually
> woefully lacking. Vegetation management is an important 
> department of DOTs whose focus is usually limited to
> controlling vegetation height and weed control. These 
> activities are well codified and training is widely 
> available.
> Their functions can easily be contracted and are sometimes 
> performed by fairly low-wage employees."
> 
> "Because most native plant advocates speak from a
> specific 
> area of concern such as wildflowers, prairies, or
> simply the broad category of native plants, it is often 
> difficult for these advocates and roadside managers to
> understand each other. This derives from the manager and 
> advocate having an incomplete understanding of
> each other perspective, language, and goals. Advocates 
> frequently have a poor understanding of the goals and
> priorities of highway design and management, or of the 
> political and budgetary constraints involved."
> 
> The problem I see here is the local employees don't
> know 
> how to tell when the wildflowers have set seed, and they 
> mow too early. Bluebonnets look pretty scrappy when they 
> are setting seed, and the engineers are in a hurry to make 
> it look tidy and use the fear of fire during burn bans as 
> an excuse to mow whenever they want.
> 
> --Sage
> 
> On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:35:26 -0800 (PST)
>   bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I'm not being a smart aleck, I'm being serious
> when I 
> >ask: If you know this, then why don't the botanists
> at 
> >Tex DOT know this, and stop?
> > 
> > p.s.  Your initial message, below, came to me rather 
> >than the list
> > 
> > 
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, eureka AT hctc.net
> <eureka AT hctc.net> 
> >wrote:
> > 
> >> From: eureka AT hctc.net <eureka AT hctc.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Beetle Invasion in N.E.
> >> To: bobford79 AT yahoo.com
> >> Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 10:30 AM
> >>
> http://www.texasinvasives.org/Invasives_Database/Results/Detail.asp?Symbol=BOISS
> >> 
> >> It's just as bad as bermuda, an aggressive
> spreader. It
> >> comes from Africa, and was introduced by the King
> Ranch 
> >>of
> >> Texas for erosion control in the 1930's
> because of
> >> it's drought tolerance, but oddly it has
> little value as
> >> forage or hay. King Ranch Bluestem (or KR for
> short) is
> >> perennial bunchgrass, not even a true bluestem.
> It's
> >> considered invasive by many noteworthy national
> agencies 
> >>but
> >> is still being seeded by the TXDOT and pushed by 
> >>agencies
> >> with holes in their heads. The best way to get rid
> of it 
> >>is
> >> tillage, but good luck tilling our gravel soil.
> Fire
> >> suppression is helpful, but you must burn in the
> summer 
> >>and
> >> most of the time we are under a burn ban then.
> BTW, it's
> >> in your state too, and throughout the south.
> >> 
> >> --Sage
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 09:05:11 -0800 (PST)
> >>  bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > What is KR, is it like bermuda in the city,
> growing
> >> everywhere you don't want?  I don't know
> how things
> >> are nowadays, I just remember different people
> making
> >> suggestions to my father and his friends.  Some
> they
> >> trusted, some not.  Building trust is essential. 
> >>Someone, at
> >> some time, convinced people to bulldoze their
> yards.  I
> >> don't understand it either .....bobford
> >> > 
> >> >
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > --- On Wed, 11/5/08, eureka AT hctc.net
> >> <eureka AT hctc.net> wrote:
> >> > 
> >> >> From: eureka AT hctc.net
> <eureka AT hctc.net>
> >> >> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Beetle Invasion
> in N.E.
> >> >> To: bobford79 AT yahoo.com,
> >> homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >> >> Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 9:53
> AM
> >> >> The problem here is nobody--not even the
> >> government--is
> >> >> telling them not to clear everything. In
> fact, as
> >> far as I
> >> >> can tell the extension agents and soil
> >> conservation
> >> >> districts are the ones actually
> encouraging this,
> >> and there
> >> >> are financial incentives for land owners
> to do so.
> >> I
> >> >> don't understand why these agencies
> don't
> >> see the
> >> >> impact this has on erosion and water
> quality. The
> >> only
> >> >> agency I know that is very concerned is
> the river
> >> authority
> >> >> and their hands are tied, as the majority
> of their
> >> funding
> >> >> is for cleaning up messes rather than
> educating
> >> and
> >> >> pre-empting them.
> >> >> 
> >> >> My neighbor and I have had many good
> conversations
> >> about
> >> >> ecology over the years, and I do so
> admire his
> >> ability as an
> >> >> alternative builder to think outside the
> box, so I
> >> was (as
> >> >> you recall) extremely floored when he
> cleared the
> >> land
> >> >> around us, including bull dozing the
> creeks,
> >> destroying a
> >> >> lot more than just our privacy. Although
> he
> >> bounces a lot of
> >> >> ideas off us about future projects, he
> did not
> >> once ask what
> >> >> we thought of this idea before he began,
> and
> >> continued the
> >> >> destruction well after we let him know
> our
> >> thoughts and gave
> >> >> him oak wilt information. As an
> afterthough he
> >> asked me what
> >> >> kind of grass he should plant along the
> denuded
> >> creek, and I
> >> >> gave him some native suggestions, and
> begged him
> >> not to use
> >> >> invasive KR. He swears he did not plant
> KR, but it
> >> is
> >> >> suddenly all over our property and his.
> It's
> >> heavily
> >> >> promoted by the aforementioned agencies.
> >> >> 
> >> >> He recently asked my husband if we have
> forgiven
> >> yet, and
> >> >> my husband said no. We all remain
> friends. But I
> >> will not
> >> >> hesitate to sue him if his erosion causes
> my land
> >> to erode,
> >> >> or if my oaks contract oak wilt from his
> mistakes.
> >> And I
> >> >> have never been a litigious person.
> >> >> 
> >> >> --Sage
> >> >> 
> >> >> On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 08:26:59 -0800 (PST)
> >> >>  bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >> >> > I forgot to add in my first reply. 
> Where I
> >> grew up ,
> >> >> most of the country people would have
> listened to
> >> you and
> >> >> followed much of your instructions, IF : 
> You
> >> didn't
> >> >> tell them the gov't was making them
> do it. 
> >> And, you did
> >> >> not condescend to them  (and having a
> southern
> >> accent would
> >> >> be helpful) :-) ....bobford
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >>
> >>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > > > --- On Wed, 11/5/08,
> >> eureka AT hctc.net
> >> >> <eureka AT hctc.net> wrote:
> >> >> > >> From: eureka AT hctc.net
> >> <eureka AT hctc.net>
> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Homestead] Beetle
> Invasion
> >> in N.E.
> >> >> >> To: bobford79 AT yahoo.com,
> >> >> homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >> >> >> Date: Wednesday, November 5,
> 2008, 9:06
> >> AM
> >> >> >> We have Oak Wilt, carried by a
> beetle
> >> dangerously
> >> >> close to
> >> >> >> us, about 15 minutes away. It is
> also
> >> often spread
> >> >> through
> >> >> >> firewood, some idiot cutting
> down an oak
> >> >> that's died
> >> >> >> from it and selling the wood, or
> using
> >> the same
> >> >> chain saw
> >> >> >> afterwards without cleaing it.
> If
> >> you've
> >> >> visited my blog
> >> >> >> you understand the size of our
> oaks and
> >> concern
> >> >> around here.
> >> >> >> >> Another thing the
> article brings
> >> up is the loss of
> >> >> property
> >> >> >> values in the area where the
> destruction,
> >> and
> >> >> preventative
> >> >> >> destruction is taking place. One
> thing I
> >> am big on
> >> >> as a
> >> >> >> botanist is encouraging people
> to have
> >> trees of
> >> >> all ages,
> >> >> >> including babies and teenagers,
> so to
> >> speak since
> >> >> landscapes
> >> >> >> are dynamic. This helps in
> maintaining
> >> property
> >> >> value. I am
> >> >> >> so often amazed that
> people's
> >> landscapes
> >> >> include only
> >> >> >> the mature (because everything
> else has
> >> been
> >> >> cleared away,
> >> >> >> such as my neighbor's place)
> or in
> >> new
> >> >> subdivision built
> >> >> >> on scraped ground, young trees
> of the
> >> same
> >> >> relative age
> >> >> >> brought in for landscaping.
> Diversity
> >> isn't
> >> >> just limited
> >> >> >> to species, but should involve
> life
> >> stages as
> >> >> well.
> >> >> >> >> Maybe those of you
> managing
> >> woodlots have an
> >> >> understanding
> >> >> >> of this, but in Texas very few
> do. Large
> >> ranches
> >> >> go to great
> >> >> >> lengths to take out what they
> see as
> >> undesirable
> >> >> underbrush
> >> >> >> through controlled burns. I
> understand
> >> they want
> >> >> grass and
> >> >> >> have little need of firewood,
> but they
> >> don't
> >> >> even
> >> >> >> protect their riparian areas. We
> make
> >> sure on our
> >> >> property
> >> >> >> we have trees of all ages.
> >> >> >> >> --Sage
> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 5 Nov 2008
> 05:15:53
> >> -0800 (PST)
> >> >> >>  bob ford
> <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> From this am Wash Post.
>  This
> >> sounds like
> >> >> a
> >> >> >> significant pestilence in Susan
> >> Jane's neck of
> >> >> the woods
> >> >> >> ....bobf
> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >> > > > Authorities Hope
> Beetle
> >> Invasion
> >> >> Can Be Ground to a
> >> >> >> Halt
> >> >> >> >  Crystal Franciosi, a U.S.
> >> Department of
> >> >> Agriculture
> >> >> >> tree climber, records her
> findings after
> >> checking
> >> >> for Asian
> >> >> >> longhorned beetles in Worcester,
> Mass.
> >> (Stephan
> >> >> Savoia - AP)
> >> >> >> >> > > WORCESTER,
> Mass. -- A
> >> wood-devouring
> >> >> beetle has gained
> >> >> >> a foothold in New England, and
> >> authorities plan to
> >> >> cut down
> >> >> >> large numbers of infested trees
> and grind
> >> them up
> >> >> to stop
> >> >> >> the pest from spreading to the
> >> region's
> >> >> celebrated
> >> >> >> forests and ravaging the timber,
> tourism
> >> and
> >> >> maple-syrup
> >> >> >> industries
> >> >> >> > > > > >
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/04/AR2008110403574.html?hpid=sec-nation
> >> >> >> > > >    
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > >     
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> >> > 
> >> >
> > 
> > 
> >      
> 
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