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["SISU!" <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>]

Lynda wrote:

> Well, evidence would show that you are closer to the truth than you 
> think. Cristobal was more likely Spanish than Italian, so Spaniard's
>  ships would be accurate.

I know.  Regardless of his own heritage though, the ships were the
property of Spain.
> As to the stuff he brought, they weren't needed and some you 
> mentioned were already here (onions, grapes, clover).

Wait, wait, wait....I just quoted what some scholar wrote in the book.
The book is a group of essays that were published by the Smithsonian
Institute to accompany an exhibit by the same name that appeared in the
Natural History Museum.  I took it as fact, but I won't argue it in the
event it isn't.
I just looked it up...that essay was written by Alfred W. Crosby,
professor emeritus of American studies at the University of Texas.  He's
a Guggenheim fellow who is also an author of various books.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?ATH=Alfred+W.+Crosby&z=y

 I just quoted him, but I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have
researched this.

> And, yes there is every evidence that the Polynesians, Chinese and 
> Norsemen had been here.  MAJOR difference.  They didn't come with the
>  intent to take over the world.  They didn't come with the *superior*
>  attitude that they knew all and only the white christians knew the 
> *right* way.  Funny thing, the native population and the *visitors* 
> got along quite well.  It wasn't until there were *invaders* that 
> there was a problem.

 I'm not arguing that point.  We don't have enough information to say
what the motives were for those who probably came before Columbus-could
have been exploration, like we were taught, or it could have been for
resources, or it could have been people looking to find new trade
routes, as Columbus stated was his goal.
> So, when you do the math, the scale hangs heavily to the negative. 
> And, people needing a place to escape to does NOT justify the 
> wholesale murder of whole groups of people and the continued 
> depression of a whole ethnic group.

I know, but sadly, that history is repeated over and over again with
mankind.
I wonder, in 500 years, if there will be some Muslims who look back at
Europe and America and think...wow...was it truly justified that we
committed the 'wholesale murder of whole groups of people and continued
to depress other whole ethnic groups via dhimmification?

Perhaps I have mislead you guys on what this book is about.  It is about
change, and that can be good or bad depending on which side of the spear
point/gun barrel you are on.<g>
Everything, good and bad, is a learning experience.
The book is worth reading to understand the biological impact alone.

I'm going to end my participation in this thread with a quote from the
Foreward of Seeds of Change:
"During the five centuries since contact, the diversity of New World
peoples and their environment of plants and animals have suffered.  But
in this first decade of the sexcentenary, appreciation of cultural and
biological diversity has reawakened.  We have accumulated knowledge of
how cultures have shriveled and died, how species have been
extinguished, and how our environment has been perilously damaged.  It
is now time to use this accumulated wisdom, born of loss, to help heal,
restore, and diversify further....the National Museum of Natural History
will continue...to examine our human role and human responsibility in
global change."
Frank Talbot, the Director of the National Museum of Natural History

Bev

--
BevanRon of EarthNSky Farm   NW Georgia USDA Zone 7
34.498N 85.076W    Bev is Earth, Ron is Sky