Kata Markon

["Michael Abernathy" <mabernat AT cub.kcnet.org>]

Three things,
    First, I do not claim that the dating of Mark makes it irrefutably true.
What I claim is that there would be eye witnesses available.  Second,  You
seem to have fallen into the same logical error that many people do
concerning the average life span.  An average life span of 30 years is
calculated by adding in infant mortality rates and the all those premature
deaths caused by childhood diseases, infections, war, etc.  Many people
lived into their seventies and eighties.  Which leaves us with at least one
known witnesses, the apostle John.
    Third, I have seen a similar set of parallels between the sea passages
in the Odyssey and the stilling of the storm in Mark.  It just is not enough
to find parallels because real parallels often exist between historical
events or even between real life and literature.
Sincerely,
Michael Abernathy
----- Original Message -----
From: <JFAlward AT aol.com>
To: "Kata Markon" <gmark AT franklin.metalab.unc.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 11:36 PM
Subject: [gmark] Re: Stilling the Storm


> In a message dated 3/6/02 8:59:29 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> mabernat AT cub.kcnet.org writes:
>
> << Interestingly enough, it has been nearly the same amount of time since
> Kennedy died that most scholars claim between the death of Jesus and the
> writing of Mark.  We have enough eye-witnesses around that if anyone made
> historical claims about him that were not true, someone could refute them.
>>
>
> I often hear the claim that if the gospels stories were false, they would
> have been ridiculed as false at that time, so the apparent lack of
refutation
> stands as proof that the stories are true.  I reject this argument.
Mark's
> gospel, the first one, wasn't written until about 70 AD, and the life span
in
> those days was less than 30, so few  would have been around to refute the
> stories about events alleged to have occurred about forty years earlier.
> Furthermore, even if there were persons still alive who lived in and
around
> the areas where Jesus was alleged to have worked his miracles, how would
they
> forty years later be able to claim that such events never happened?
>
> It is virtually impossible to prove that something did *not* happen, even
if
> it was alleged to have happened recently.  Suppose, for example, a person
in
> your city claimed that about a year ago a miracle-worker raised someone
from
> the dead, calmed the sea, and fed thousands of people with just a few
loaves
> of bread.  Who would ever be able to say it never happened?  We certainly
> wouldn't take the lack evidence against this man's claim as an indication
> that the events this person described actually happened.  Why, then,
should
> we believe that the lack of protest about the stories of Jesus' alleged
> miracles, stories told forty years after the alleged events, is evidence
that
> the stories must be true?
>
> Now, if the Bible stories were true, then one would expect that there
would
> exist some extrabiblical contemporary evidence of these events in poetry,
> literature, or the reports of historians and journalists.  However, there
is
> not the slightest mention of the miraculous feeding of five thousand, then
> later the four thousand, from just a handful of bread and fish.  Nine
> thousand people.  Surely most of them would have told and retold their
> personal miracle story over and over again, as would have their children,
and
> so on down through the generations, up to this day.  But, not a single
peep
> about this from contemporaries  has been recorded.
>
> There is also no mention anywhere of the murder by Herod's swordsmen of
all
> of the children under two years of age in Bethlehem and the surrounding
> suburbs.  What a sensational story that would have been, if it had ever
> happened.  The details of the slaughter of these innocents would still be
> talked about today, if the murders of all those babies had actually
occurred.
>  But, there is not a word of this outside the Bible.  How come Matthew is
the
> only one who wrote about it?
>
> How could these astonishing events not have been important enough to have
> been recorded extrabiblically, if they had actually occurred?
>
> Now, let me return to my argument that Mark's story of Jesus' calming of
the
> sea (Mark 4:37-41) was copied from Jonah (Jonah 1:4-16).
>
> There are five elements in the two stories that are not to be found
anywhere
> else in literature or folklore:
>
> 1. A raging storm threatens a boat.
> 2. The hero is asleep on the boat.
> 3. The hero is awakened and criticized for his apparent lack of concern.
> 4. The storm is miraculously calmed.
> 5. The passengers fear the miracle-worker.
>
> These correspondences hardly seem coincidental, so the conclusion that
Mark
> made up this story seems inescapable, especially in light of the fact that
> there are several other examples of Mark seemingly doing the same thing.
>
> For example, consider the miraculous feeding stories: Elisha's men
complain
> that they can't feed one hundred men on with so little bread, but Elisha
told
> them to feed them anyway, and it was miraculously accomplished, with food
> left over. (2 Kings 4:42-44). Thus, Mark had Jesus' men complain, too,
about
> having to feed so many men with so little bread, and  Jesus told them to
feed
> the five thousand anyway, the feeding was miraculously accomplished, and
food
> was left over (Mark 6:32-42). Evidently, Mark wanted his readers to recall
> the Elisha story and recognize that whatever power the Lord had given
Elisha,
> it was given to Jesus fifty times over.
>
> In this forum we have seen how Jesus' prayer at Gethsemane and his
betrayal
> by Judas was patterned after events in the life of David, so I won't
repeat
> that information here.  It is sufficient to say, I believe, that the
evidence
> that Mark's stories about Jesus are completely fictional is much too
strong
> even for the most ardent apologist to ignore.
>
> Joseph F. Alward
> "A Skeptical View of Christianity and the Bible"
> http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html
>
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